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Question #: 13714

Question: what is the footprint of the vertical laser xl?

Current Solution

The footprint (necessary floor space) for the Vertical Laser XL is: 123 inches x 26 inches or 3124.2 mm x 660.4 mm

The height of the Vertical Laser XL is 87 inches or 2209.8 mm

So, the envelope of the Vertical Laser XL is:
length: 123 inches or 3124.2mm
depth: 26 inches or 660.4 mm
height: 87 inches or 2209.8 mm

Respond:

Other Possible Solutions to this Question

• what is the total envelope of the vertical laser xl?

The footprint (necessary floor space) for the Vertical Laser XL is: 123 inches x 26 inches or 3124.2 mm x 660.4 mm

The height of the Vertical Laser XL is 87 inches or 2209.8 mm

So, the envelope of the Vertical Laser XL is:
length: 123 inches or 3124.2mm
depth: 26 inches or 660.4 mm
height: 87 inches or 2209.8 mm

what is the total envelope of the vertical laser xl?

• What is the footprint size of the Blacktooth laser machine?

The footprint of the blackTooth laser machine is:
Length: 37"/ 939.8mm
Width: 33"-3/4"/ 857.25mm
Height: 11"-1/8"/ 282.575mm

The height will change with the doors that open to retrieve your material/project the highest point will be 28"-1/4"/ 717.55mm

what is the maximum cutting depth of the blacktooth laser on plywood

What is the footprint size of the Blacktooth laser machine?

• What file types will the vertical laser xl accept?

LaserCAD and the Anywells Laser Controller used in our BlackTooth and Vertical Laser XL laser cutters and engravers can accept these file types:

.nc (Gcode)
.svg
.plt
.dst
.dsb
.uds (UD)
.bmp (Bitmap image)
.gif (Image)
.jpg (Joint Photographers)
.png

What file types will the vertical laser xl accept?

• WHAT IS SHIPPING DIMENSIONS AND WEIGHT FOR THE VERTICAL LASER.

Shipping crate size 121" X 36" X 92"

Weight 511 LBS

WHAT IS SHIPPING DIMENSIONS AND WEIGHT FOR THE VERTICAL LASER.

• What is the acceleration limited to with the laser tube vertical?

With our new Laser/Spindle Combo Head for our greenBull, we kept the acceleration the same and had no issues at all with the tube (regarding chipping breaking etc.). So there is no specific limit to the machine (take into affect the weight of your gantry and the overall output of your motors), but here is the setup we have now:
(with a custom greenBull gantry (4' x 8'))
X-axis
SPI: 910.069
Vel: 400.02
Acc: 12
Y-Axis
SPI: 911.023
Vel: 400.02
Acc: 18
Z-Axis
SPI: 1632.653
Vel: 79.98
Acc: 5

What is the acceleration limited to with the laser tube vertical?

• What is the footprint of the blacktoe 4x2?

The footprint of the optional blackToe table, is from its most outward points (73" inches x 34" inches) and for the gantry itself (36.5" inches width x 17.25" inches length x 29.5" inches height).

Thank you. Let me ask a clarification question.From this description, can I presume that the 4x2 router kit can be attached to a torsion box-like table that is 73"x34", has a two inch overhang, and four inches of space below the overhang, and that the fully assembled unit will fit in a space that is 73" long by 36.5" wide (with a little bit of clearance, of course)? If I have extra space in the long direction, can I get longer rails and extend the table?

What is the footprint of the blacktoe 4x2?

• WHAT ARE THE SHIPPING DIMENSIONS FOR VERTICAL LASER

Shipping crate size 121" X 36" X 92"

Weight 511 LBS

WHAT ARE THE SHIPPING DIMENSIONS FOR VERTICAL LASER

• What are some good ways to control the vertical laser from a Linux machine?

There really isn't any good way to use Linux when using a traditional Laser Controller. If LaserCAD worked under the Linux OS, then that would work.

Would you like to know an alternative to use Linux using maybe LinuxCNC? There are ways to do it, but you will find yourself deep in g-code and out of the box wiring configurations, most likely.

Alternatively, you can create a dual boot scenario and put Window on the other part of the hard drive. This way, you would be able to run LaserCAD.

You can also "attempt" to use LaserCAD in the wine environment, but I have a feeling that will probably not work.

We're a small family-owned electronics and hardware manufacturer, using LinuxCNC already for milling. Dual-boot into Windows isn't a sensible option -- it would greatly reduce the utility of the machine. I have more information about our use case in https://buildyourcnc.com/FAQ/13985.

Ok, fair enough. Then let's get into the details on how you can use LinuxCNC to operate a Laser machine.

Do you have an idea what controller you will be using? Parallel?

My first inclination was to use LinuCNC with the parallel interface board. Of that's the answer, then we might want to just add to the LinuxCNC discussion that's starting to firm up at https://buildyourcnc.com/FAQ/13985 rather than duplicate the information here.

I'm open to other alternatives and am happy to hack; we make PCBs and cable harnesses as a business, so that's not a limitation either. One answer might be to use one of the open source controllers that are starting to show up.

My turn for phone typos. ;-) I meant to say "If that's the answer, then..."

Good idea. Thanks.

When a direct solution is realized on buildyourtools, I will post it here.

What are some good ways to control the vertical laser from a Linux machine?

• What CFM capacity fume extractor is necessary for vertical laser?

We have used a 1600CFM air blower. You may not need that much power, but it is always better to be safe!

What CFM capacity fume extractor is necessary for vertical laser?

• am interested in purchasing the 80 Watt Vertical Laser XL 4'x8' Laser Cutter and Engraver, what material depth can it cut?

The Vertical Laser XL's 80 watt CO2 laser tube is capable of cutting lighter material such as wood and plastic at up to 1/2" or 12mm.

• What issues will a user need to be prepared to solve with the vertical laser that they wouldn't normally see with a horizontal bed?

I personally haven't noticed any issues with horizontal and vertical (slanted). If there is no backing on the vertical laser (something behind the workpiece), then the parts do tend to fall out. Just keep something behind the workpiece.

On a horizontal bed, you may be able to get a bit of a better vacuum hold down, but with a machine the size of a 4'x8', there really isn't a great way to get vacuum hold down, and I haven't seen the need for it anyway.

• what is the wavelength of the laser output?

The CO2 laser tubes that we sell have an output light wavelength of 10500 nm (nanometer). Our goggles provide protection for this wavelength of light.

what is the wavelength of the laser output?

• What is the peak power of the 80 watt laser tube?

Power is measured in watts. The 80 watt laser tube can output more than 80 watts of power; however, it is not advisable to run the laser tube above its rated power.

This video will illustrate how to test for laser power:

What is the peak power of the 80 watt laser tube?

• How would LinuxCNC be used with the vertical laser?

It is possible to use LinuxCNC for laser cutters and engravers but not advisable. The efficiency and control with traditional CNC control programs cannot match that of Laser controllers. This is because laser controllers are very good at matching speed with power, especially with raster image burning. Moreover, controlling the laser tube while cutting and engraving is very built in with gcode. Special software can be used, but the processing and execution is not efficient.

Laser controllers and associated software have matured well and can do cutting and engraving very well and is worth the extra expense.

If you are still interested in getting LinuxCNC to work with the laser, let me know and we can discuss this in great detail on this FAQ.

A better question might be "What are some good ways to control the vertical laser directly from a Linux machine without having to hop through Windows?" Let me know if you want me to post this as a separate question.

If I were buying the blacktooth, I'd order the parallel port board for it and skip the anywells controller -- I notice that you don't show that as an option on the vertical, which is what's generating this question.

Some background: All of our CAD/CAM is done in Linux (openscad, freecad, librecad, cadquery, blender, pycam, python gcode generators...), we use git and Makefiles and other automation scripts extensively, and we need to be able to avoid doing the double-hop from Linux via Windows to get files sent to the laser.

An example use case is that of being able to say 'make' in a project's directory on any Linux machine on the network to ship the file to the laser, including power settings etc. Needing to ship it to Windows first, and then manually mouse around to set power etc. is what I want to avoid.

With Epilogs, I used to always bypass the Windows/Coreldraw toolchain by using Gershenfeld's cam.py, sending PCL from Linux straight to the Epilog.

Something equivalent to that -- being able to run a script in Linux to convert and ship the file straight to the laser -- is what I'm planning to do here. I mentioned LinuxCNC because it's what I'm already using for our mill, and I'm comfortable hacking on it. I'm not wedded to LinuxCNC for a laser, but I am looking for open-source flexibility and future-proofing.

We don't even have any Windows machines any more -- we got rid of the last of them years ago, and I'd like to avoid going back.

I've split the more general Linux use case out as a separate question at https://buildyourcnc.com/FAQ/13989

Starting to find some answers -- forums have a thread which addresses some LinuxCNC questions at http://www.buildyourtools.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3452 for instance.

Example LinuxCNC config for the buildlog 2.X laser is at https://github.com/jv4779/2x_laser

I'm going to need some time to digest this information. Curious, are you able to develop a program to change the g-code if need be? Will you be doing vector style cutting operations only? If so, the process may be pretty straight forward.

Before we adapted the blackTooth laser to use the laser controller, we operated the machine using Mach3 and the z-axis direction signal was the chief mechanism to fire the laser (down=on, up=off). It worked like a charm. It would be better to use one of the output triggers to do this for safer operation; however.

Blacktooth adaptation of the above buildlog config can be found at http://www.buildyourtools.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=18157#p18157

Answering the earlier comment (is that you Patrick?) -- yes, we'd be doing vector primarily, though my wife (and CEO) is salivating over the potential for raster. I've got no problem writing a python script to massage gcode if that's what it would take to make things work. CAM is always a problem on Linux but I've been using a mix of things to generate gcode for milling (including just writing it by hand), and can get by as needed. Expect to spend this weekend looking around to see what others are doing.

Yes. This isn’t Patrick. I manage the Customer Service section. I will try my best to help with this over the weekend and balance family time. Haha.

I will check the links. If raster is a must, you can have two controllers controlling the machine using tri-state gates to the drivers. I did this for a customer a while ago to run CNC and laser with an external switch. You could use an external switch to switch between LinuxCNC operation and laser controller.

This is Patrick. Auto correct on my phone turned the "is" to "isn't". Ha!

The buildyourtools links doesn't really have much to do with LinuxCNC and the buildyourtools information on that thread (by MUK) implements a very similar configuration that I introduced when I first started selling the blackTooth (with the parallel control board). That style of configuration may work well with a LinuxCNC scenario.

I would rather jump-in cold with the LinuxCNC solution and see if we can address each step. What CAM program will you be using? I ask this question because that program may have the ability to inject g-code at specific points where we can turn on and off the laser.

Also, I'm going to merge the two FAQs once we pick the one we use the most often to figure this out. I'm also more comfortable using this Customer Service system to address the question for many reasons, one of which is I can tie these questions to the products directly to benefit many others.

For laser CAM on Linux we have used cam.py in the past; it's just a python script, so modifying the gcode it generates is easy.

I think we've reached a purchase decision; your responsiveness here has helped a lot with that, Patrick. It looks to me like we're going to be able to make this thing work, one way or another.

How would LinuxCNC be used with the vertical laser?

• Is there any precision or accuracy difference between the vertical and blacktooth lasers?

I will address the two separately (precision and accuracy):

Precision (repeatability):
This is most closely related to the resolution. The blackTooth uses the same mechanical drive (timing belts and pulley) of the same ratios and specifications, so the two machines will be the same in this respect.

Accuracy:

The output of the machine (the final physical work) matching the input given to the machine (the design data or instructions for the machine to product the physical work. This has to do with both resolution and how well the machine will hold up over time and through environmental changes.

With that said, both machines have very similar attributes in mechanics and structure. The overall structure is made of MDO (Medium Density Overlay) and has a very low coefficient of linear expansion with regards to temperature change, so accuracy will not be affected in any appreciable manner over time with the two machines. The Vertical Laser XL does use more industry standard rails to hold the heavy gantry, but this will be differ appreciably since the blackTooth will exhibit rigidity by virtue of its size.

It really is best to consider the application and size as the main aspects of deciding between these two machines.

Hope this helps.

We're looking at getting the vertical so we can run both large and small jobs on the same machine. It sounds like running a small job on the vertical (using a positioning jig) would provide results at least as
good as running the same job on the blacktooth. Does this sound about right?

Is there any precision or accuracy difference between the vertical and blacktooth lasers?

• How long should it take to build the vertical laser kit?

Assembling the Vertical Laser XL machine will vary depending on your specific abilities. The length of time can be as short as one weekend, or as long as two weeks.

How long should it take to build the vertical laser kit?

• What is the dot resolution (size) of the BlackTooth laser?

The dot resolution of the blackTooth is a combination of two specifications of the machine:

- The steps/inch (or steps/mm) which is the resolution but not the dot size
- The size of the actual dot, which is not specifically related to the resolution.

The steps per or resolution can actually be a range, since the driver microstepping can be modified.

A simple formula can be used to determine the resolution:

step per inch = (motor steps * microstepping) / (travel at one turn of the motor in inches)

if microstepping is set at 16 (1/16 on the driver) and you are using a pulley that has a pitch of .08 inches and 20 teeth on the drive sprocket

= (200 steps * 16 microsteps) / (20 teeth * .08 inches)
= 3200 steps / 1.6 inches
= 2000 steps per inch

To increase the resolution, just increase the microsteps on the driver.

The actual dot size will depend on the lens you are using, the material being lased, the time period that the laser energy is applied to the material, and the focal height of the lens to the work surface material. The energy from the laser will converge to a point and create a dot on the surface (which is different than the kerf of the laser cut into the material).

The dot will appear in different sizes depending on the material because, say wood, will burn causing a dot that burns the fibers of the wood and spreads a bit. The dot lased on the surface of a plastic, say Plexiglas, the dot will be smaller because the energy is absorbed only at that point, but since Plexiglas is a thermoplastic, a bit of the energy will melt the dot edges depending on the time frame (period) that the energy is applied to the surface.

The focus of the laser energy from the lens looks like a cone converging to a point, then diverges outward after that point. Depending on the distance from the lens to the surface of the material, the dot will be bigger or smaller. You want to find focal point (where the energy is focused into a point). You can use the technique where you lay a material on a slope and lase that material along the slope to find the sweet spot (dot) and that will be your smallest dot, or kerf location. Remember that the kerf will widen or narrow within the material thickness depending on the focal length lens specification (the cone will be shorter or longer depending on the lens focal length).

What is the dot resolution (size) of the BlackTooth laser?

• What software is needed to run the laser controller from the PC?

The laser controller uses software called LaserCAD. You can find the link to the LaserCAD software on the Laser Controller product page:

https://www.buildyourcnc.com/item/Laser-Component-Laser-Control-System

What software is needed to run the laser controller from the PC?

• WHAT IS D.O.F OR DEPTH OF FIELD FOR THE BLACKTOOTH LASER AND LENS?

Depth of Field. This is how far the focal point goes before re-expanding again. With a 2" lens, you have approximately 2-3mm of DOF. This means that you'll have 2-3mm of perfectly focused laser before it starts to re-expand again. If you have a 4" lens, you will have up to 7mm of DOF.

WHAT IS D.O.F OR DEPTH OF FIELD FOR THE BLACKTOOTH LASER AND LENS?

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