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Question #: 333

Question: CAN I USE A STEPPING MOTOR WITH AN ENCODER?

Current Solution

I haven't delved into using encoders with stepping motors too much. From my research, you need to have a controller that can provide the closed loop control, rather than software handling that process. I have also found from my research that using encoders on stepping motors is generally used to stop the machine in the case that the motor failed to achieve the commanded position for some reason and gives the user the chance to correct and continue with the job.

If you want proper closed loop control, it may be best to go with servos and servo controller that provide the closed loop control within the real of those two components.

Respond:

Other Possible Solutions to this Question

  • CAN THERE BE CLOSED LOOP CONTROL WITH STEPPING MOTORS?

    I haven't delved into using encoders with stepping motors too much. From my research, you need to have a controller that can provide the closed loop control, rather than software handling that process. I have also found from my research that using encoders on stepping motors is generally used to stop the machine in the case that the motor failed to achieve the commanded position for some reason and gives the user the chance to correct and continue with the job.

    If you want proper closed loop control, it may be best to go with servos and servo controller that provide the closed loop control within the real of those two components.

    Click the link to respond:
    CAN THERE BE CLOSED LOOP CONTROL WITH STEPPING MOTORS?

  • Using your NEMA 24 stepping motor with microstepping, can I get a speed range from 3 RPM to 600 RPM ?
  • how much weight can my stepping motor lift?

    There are two main questions that we can answer with respect to motor torque and the mechanical advantage of lead screws, 1) What torque motor do you need to lift a particular weight, or 2) What maximum weight will my motor torque be able to lift.

    This formula uses Newtons (N) as it's final unit. Use this with the included radius (R) to determine the torque. Newtons can easily be converted to lbs or ounces using online conversions.

    Effort = Sf + (Load/(2 x pi x (R/p) x Se))

    where:
    p = pitch of the screw
    Se = screw efficiency = Standard lead screw will be between 20% (.2) and 40% (.4)
    Sf = static force. This is the force that is needed to start the movement. The number may be eliminated, but it is good to use a number in the 5 N to 20 N range.
    Load = the expected load that the effort will need to carry (i.e., the router and the included axis assembly that the motor will need to lift)
    R = radius of the lead screw


    This formula is based on the "law of the machine"

    The final effort amount with its unit of newtons and R will be the torque. For example, if the effort comes to 100 N (newtons) and the R is .5 inches, then you can assume that the effort is 50 N-in since it would take twice the effort to turn form the one inch mark from the center of the shaft.

    Example:

    Load = 90 N (20.2 lbs)
    R = 1 inch since that is the length from the center of the shaft that the motor is rated
    p = 1 inch / 13 = .08 inches

    Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (2 x 3.14 x (1 / .08) x .2))
    Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (6.28 x 12.5 x .2))
    Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (15.7))
    Effort = 5 N + (5.73 N)
    Effort = 10.7 N = 2.4 lbs = 38.4 oz-in

    I am putting the oz-in on the end because the formula considers the distance from the center of the shaft to be one inch.

    Therefore, a 425 oz-in motor would be able to lift a 20.2 lb Router with its accompanying assembly. If the assembly and router is heavier, plug in the numbers and determine the effort required.

    With a bit of algebra, the formula can be rewritten to find the load:

    Load = (Effort - Sf) x (2 x pi x (R/p) x Se)

    Another formula that does not consider friction at all:

    Effort = (Load x p) / (2 x pi x R)

    Lets see if we get similar results:

    Effort = (20 lb x .08 inches) / (2 x 3.14 x 1)
    Effort = 1.6 / 6.28 = .255 lbs = 4.08 oz-in

    The results from both formulas appear to be very small because a 13 TPI screw will have enormous mechanical advantage.

    It is evident that the first formula that does consider friction that we are loosely estimating is far more conservative than the second formula. Either way, even the most conservative formula shows that the 425 oz-in motor will handle very large weights. If you are using a lead screw with only two turns per inch, .5 inch pitch, you can determine the requirements with the first formula.

    Example for a 10 TPI 5 start (2 turns per inch) lead screw:

    Load = 90 N (20.2 lbs)
    R = 1 inch since that is the length from the center of the shaft that the motor is rated
    p = 1 inch / 2 = .5 inches

    Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (2 x 3.14 x (1 / .5) x .2))
    Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (6.28 x 2 x .2))
    Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (2.512))
    Effort = 5 N + (35.83 N)
    Effort = 40.828 N = 9.18 lbs = 146.88 oz-in

    Customer Response:
    thank you so much

    Additional Information:


    Additional Information:


    Additional Information:
    how do i calculate torque of stepper motor if lead screw coupled to motor shaft and load applied by lead screw on plate is 100 kg by vertically

    Additional Information:
    Pls


    Additional Information:
    1m 16mmdiameter ball screws calculations

    Click the link to respond:
    how much weight can my stepping motor lift?

  • I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY REFERENCES TO STEPPING MOTOR ENCODER FEED-BACK FOR CLOSED LOOP CAPABILITY IN OF THE HARDWARE YOU SELL. THIS A SUPPORTED FEATURE WITH HARDWARE/SOFTWARE SELL?

    I haven't delved into using encoders with stepping motors too much. From my research, you need to have a controller that can provide the closed loop control, rather than software handling that process. I have also found from my research that using encoders on stepping motors is generally used to stop the machine in the case that the motor failed to achieve the commanded position for some reason and gives the user the chance to correct and continue with the job.

    If you want proper closed loop control, it may be best to go with servos and servo controller that provide the closed loop control within the real of those two components.

    Click the link to respond:
    I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY REFERENCES TO STEPPING MOTOR ENCODER FEED-BACK FOR CLOSED LOOP CAPABILITY IN OF THE HARDWARE YOU SELL. THIS A SUPPORTED FEATURE WITH HARDWARE/SOFTWARE SELL?

  • Do I have to use the Postep Driver with the Pokey57CNC usb/ethernet board. Can I use the Motor Driver (24-40 volts DC, up to 3.0 amps, microstepping from 1 to 1/64) With The Pokeycnc USB/Ethernet board.

    Since the Pokey57CNC outputs standard pulse and direction signals, you can use any stepper driver. So, you do not need to use the Postep driver to operate your stepper motors.

    The Pokey57CNC control board is extremely feature rich and can be use to control very complex light or heavy CNC systems. Since most CNC system use high current drivers, the Pokey57CNC can be used with these systems.

    Click the link to respond:
    Do I have to use the Postep Driver with the Pokey57CNC usb/ethernet board. Can I use the Motor Driver (24-40 volts DC, up to 3.0 amps, microstepping from 1 to 1/64) With The Pokeycnc USB/Ethernet board.

  • Is there a better manual for the laser engraving controle having problems with the set up of the stepping motors etc

    This "question 12186" could be a good place to house questions on the laser controller. We are in the process of creating thorough video instructions, but please add specific questions by clicking the "submit additional information" and we will answer questions regarding the laser controller with detail.

    Click the link to respond:
    Is there a better manual for the laser engraving controle having problems with the set up of the stepping motors etc

  • My plasmacam cnc machine has servo motors with an optical encoder to provide position sensing. Can the pokeys57 cnc controller and drivers run those servos?

    Yes, the Pokeys57CNC can control standard CNC or plasma machine servos as servo drives accept step and direction signals just like stepper motors.

    Click the link to respond:
    My plasmacam cnc machine has servo motors with an optical encoder to provide position sensing. Can the pokeys57 cnc controller and drivers run those servos?

  • 4 axis kit can I use 2 motors for the gantry with one controller card? or I buy the 3 axis kit instead?

    Yes, you can use the 4 axis kit and use two of the motors on the gantry. You will need to wire the gantry axis motors to the same step and direction signals on the controller interface. For example, if the gantry axis is the X axis, then on the controller step and direction terminals (CP and CW) is wired to both of the stepper motor drivers for the X axis.

    Click the link to respond:
    4 axis kit can I use 2 motors for the gantry with one controller card? or I buy the 3 axis kit instead?

  • my motor only steps in single increments when i click the jog button on the planet cnc software, it doesn't continue stepping as I am holding down the jog button, can anyone help me with this?

    There is a drop menu next to JOG on the main page. Will be the arrow pointing down next to the the JOG box, disable the step option which is the very first option.

    Click the link to respond:
    my motor only steps in single increments when i click the jog button on the planet cnc software, it doesn't continue stepping as I am holding down the jog button, can anyone help me with this?

  • Can I drive my X axes with 2 motors using one motor driver?

    It is not recommended to drive two stepping (stepper) motors with a single driver. The driver will need to output the sum of the current that is rated for both motors. The best way to drive two motors on the same axis, or if you need the motors to spin in a synchronous fashion, then have each motor connected to their own driver and connect the signal wires from the drivers to the same signal step and direction pin on the breakout/interface board.

    Click the link to respond:
    Can I drive my X axes with 2 motors using one motor driver?

  • What is the number of pole pairs and rotor inertia for NEMA 23 Stepping motor?

    You can find the wiring diagram, and technical specifications for the NEMA 23 motor, on it's product page, found here,

    https://www.buildyourcnc.com/Item/electronicsAndMotors-nema23-100ozin-newbiehack-motors-stepping_motors-100_ozin

    There is a datasheet below the product description. This image will expand to be easier visible once clicked on.

    Click the link to respond:
    What is the number of pole pairs and rotor inertia for NEMA 23 Stepping motor?

  • Can you supply a quote for a 4 axis combo kit with NEMA 17 Motors

    To select a 4 axis NEMA 17 motor and driver combination, you will need the following:

    - Four (4) NEMA 17 motors: https://buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-nema17-62ozin-NEWBIEHACK-motors-stepping_motor-62_ozin

    - Four (4) drivers, either the 2.5A: https://buildyourcnc.com/item/motion%20electronics-steppermotordriver-newbiehack-Motor_Drivers-2!5_Amp_modular or the 3.0A: https://buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-stepper-driver-3!0a

    - One (1) Power supply, either the 24V or 36V (recommended): https://buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-power-supply

    - Finally, an interface is needed, either parallel, or USB. The USB works with planet-cnc software only. The parallel interface works with all major CNC control software: https://buildyourcnc.com/category/breakout

    Click the link to respond:
    Can you supply a quote for a 4 axis combo kit with NEMA 17 Motors

  • Can this driver accept 5 lead Nema 34 steppers: Stepping Motor Driver (24-70 volts DC, up to 6.0 amps, microstepping from 1/2 to 1/256)

    Please measure the resistance between all the wires in all combinations to determine where these wires exists with the coils. I am not familiar with 5 wire stepper motors.

    Click the link to respond:
    Can this driver accept 5 lead Nema 34 steppers: Stepping Motor Driver (24-70 volts DC, up to 6.0 amps, microstepping from 1/2 to 1/256)

  • What determines how fast the stepping motors will spin?

    The amount of voltage that is used to power the motors will generally determine the top RPM of the stepping motors. As you increase the voltage, the time constant is reduced in the process of current flowing through the coils of the motor. The faster the current can be drawn through the coils, the faster the motor will spin.

    Click the link to respond:
    What determines how fast the stepping motors will spin?

  • Can we use Mach4 with the fabricator pro?

    Yes, you can use Mach4 wtih the Fabricator Pro CNC machine.

    We have not designed a metal machine like the Fabricator Pro to lean more in the vertical orientation. Unfortunately, we haven't gotten any requests for that style of machine, and the greenLean, although a great machine and space saver, has not been our best seller.

    If we get more interest in this type of machine, we would have no problem designing a machine like this.

    Click the link to respond:
    Can we use Mach4 with the fabricator pro?

  • Can I use Mach4 with the Fabricator Pro?

    Yes, you can use Mach4 wtih the Fabricator Pro CNC machine.

    We have not designed a metal machine like the Fabricator Pro to lean more in the vertical orientation. Unfortunately, we haven't gotten any requests for that style of machine, and the greenLean, although a great machine and space saver, has not been our best seller.

    If we get more interest in this type of machine, we would have no problem designing a machine like this.

    Click the link to respond:
    Can I use Mach4 with the Fabricator Pro?

  • Can I use the driver's I have with the Pokey57

    Since the Pokey57CNC outputs standard pulse and direction signals, you can use any stepper driver. So, you do not need to use the Postep driver to operate your stepper motors.

    The Pokey57CNC control board is extremely feature rich and can be use to control very complex light or heavy CNC systems. Since most CNC system use high current drivers, the Pokey57CNC can be used with these systems.

    Click the link to respond:
    Can I use the driver's I have with the Pokey57

  • Why is my stepping motor loosing steps.

    Sometimes the problem is just too much dust on the motors. Wood dust and grease can get pretty sticky over time. This is especially bad with lead screws as the dirt is collected inside the nut. Just clean the motors and guides, put some petrol on them to get rid of old, sticky oil, clean again and relube.

    I would look for worn bearings (or perhaps mounting bolts, or even a loose set screw on the motor couplings). You might even go to the extreme, of removing the motor coupling from the drive, and try turning the drive by hand. If you can't, then you have some type of binding issues in the mechanical drive on that axis. Again, look for worn bearings, etc. I once had this issue to appear on my Y axis, and discovered that it had been dragging a shattered bearing around (instead of it smoothly rolling along, as it was designed to do).

    This could also be caused be a loose sprocket appearing like the motor is loosing steps.

    Click the link to respond:
    Why is my stepping motor loosing steps.

  • can mach 3 be used with your usb breakout board?

    Mach3 is not compatible with the USB breakout board, so you need Planet CNC in its place.

    Additional Information:

    I am confused by this same issue. I am using the Mach3 USB interface board with Mach3 and it works fine. In fact a video of it is on this very website. (link below)

    Is the Mach3 USB interface board the same thing as Planet-CNC USB board?
    It has been stated on this FAQ that it cannot be used with Mach3 and can only be used with Planet CNC USB software.

    https://www.buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-electronic-component-breakout-Mach3-USB-Board

    Click the link to respond:
    can mach 3 be used with your usb breakout board?