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### Question #: 878

Question: Building one of your greenBull 6X Long and 2.2 kilowatt spindle does not fit. Seems lead screw you sent with kit is short 42" looks like it needs to be 5 or 6 inch longer. Is this correct? What is the needed length of lead screw for this unit?

Current Solution

The leadscrew length for the greenBull long Z-axis is 47 inches.

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### Other Possible Solutions to this Question

• Building one of your greenBull 6X Long and 2.2 kilowatt spindle does not fit. Seems lead screw you sent with kit is short 42" looks like it needs to be 5 or 6 inch longer. Is this correct? What is the needed length of lead screw for this unit?

The leadscrew length for the greenBull long Z-axis is 47 inches.

• How to determine lead screw length needed. My Thomson 1 1:4 rails are 60 inches long roughly for the router I’m building. I know I have to have it long enough to couple up with the stepper motor of course but does it matter if it’s a little long on the other end

It generally does not matter if it is longer at the other end as long as the lead screw provides the desired travel for that axis. The lead screw will only need to be long enough for the travel, plus any structure and lead-nut positioning.

For example:
- The motor that will turn the lead screw will need to be mounted at some position (generally at one end of the axis). In many cases, this positioning will be mounted where some of the lead screw will not be used (the lead nut will not be able to moved close to the coupling of the lead screw to the motor shaft). Add some of the length of the lead screw to be inserted into the coupling.

- If the lead screw will contain bearings at either end of the travel, that portion of the mechanical assembly will need to be considered in the lead screw length.

- The lead-nut will need to be mounted in a position on a structural member of the part that is to move. The distance from the part of the structure that will extend closest to the motor will have some distance to the position of the lead nut. This distance will need to be added to the lead screw length.

Add these discrepancies to the length of the lead screw and the travel length and you will have the final length.

• I bought a 'BuildyourCNC V1' relay board to go with my mach3 usb controller. I have been sent a 'Songle' relay. It's not the one in your picture and it's got different connections, for which there isn't a wiring diagram. The one I ordered says it is 5v, this one seems to be saying it's a 24v unit. Can you please explain what has happened? Thanks

The Mach3 USB interface board requires 24V relays externally. There are no relays on the mach3 usb board. If you use an external relay on the mach3 usb board, the relay connects to the V+ which is 24V and the output pin is the return.

I understand what you are saying. Does your relay board work with the Mach3 USB board? If not, what relay board do you suggest to work with this usb controller?

Our relay board works with our parallel breakout board. An off the shelf SSR (Solid State Relay) made for 24V should work fine.

• I bought a 'BuildyourCNC V1' relay board to go with my mach3 usb controller. I have been sent a 'Songle' relay. It's not the one in your picture and it's got different connections, for which there isn't a wiring diagram. The one I ordered says it is 5v, this one seems to be saying it's a 24v unit. Can you please explain what has happened? Thanks

The Mach3 USB interface board requires 24V relays externally. There are no relays on the mach3 usb board. If you use an external relay on the mach3 usb board, the relay connects to the V+ which is 24V and the output pin is the return.

I understand what you are saying. Does your relay board work with the Mach3 USB board? If not, what relay board do you suggest to work with this usb controller?

Our relay board works with our parallel breakout board. An off the shelf SSR (Solid State Relay) made for 24V should work fine.

• Does the Redfly that I bought with the GreenBull in 2016 work with Mach4? Also I want to add a 4th axis and a spindle with automatic tool changer. Will this work too or do I need a new control board? I bought my CNC with a longer Z travel, so I have plenty of room for these. Thanks!

That will depend on the controller that was installed in the redFly. If the controller is a pokeys57CNC controller, you can use Mach 4 with that system.

You can add a 4th axis and an ATC (Automatic Tool Changer) with the redFly system.

• I am building my own laser and have watch your trocen videos.....but laser wont fire...double checked wiring and all seems correct to diagram....but the kit i bought was for a 40 watt and i amd using a 60 watt power supply and tube.....What size does the power switching unit need to be ....I think mine is too small for the trigger mA

Is there a test button on the laser tube power supply? You can test the laser output by using the test button. This will help you determine if the laser tube is bad, or if you have wiring issues. Sometimes, wiring to he TL may not work as some controllers are set to active low, so you may need to wire the controller to TH instead.

Additionally, the mA on the high tension line does not have any relationship to the digital trigger signal from the controller to the power supply.

• I HAVE A 2.2KW WATER COOLED SPINDLE WITH YL620-H VFD. THE VFD USES P#-## PROGRAM FORMAT. BELIEVE ALL CORRECT SETTINGS SETUP BUT WHEN TURN UNIT ON, IT SPINS AT ABOUT 200-300 RPM REGARDLESS OF WHAT FREQUENCY CHOOSE. DO YOU PARAMETERS IN THIS FORMAT FOR UNIT? THANK YOUR HELP. HUIBERT MEES

You will need to look for the parameter that controls the run frequency. The frequency can be controlled bu the panel, external terminals, or the RS485 TX/RX terminals (UART protocol). You will want to change that parameter so it uses the panel. If you are referring to the maximum panel dial frequency is only allowing 200-300 rpm, then look for the parameters to control the frequency.

For 200 RPM:
Hz = 200/60 = 3.33 Hz

For 300 RPM:
Hz = 300/60 = 5 Hz

Conversion to RPM:
If you ever find yourself yearning to reverse-engineer the process, the formula is as follows:

RPM = Hz × 60

Look for values that match somewhere between 3 and 5 in your frequency parameters and replace them with 400 to give you 24,000 RPM max.

• HI, I HAVE INTENTION OF PURCHASING YOUR 1/2 INCH PRECISION LEAD SCREW SET TO BUILD MY CNC MACHINE, COULD THE SCHEMATIC DIMENSION ANTI-BACKLASH NUT, BEARING FOR AND SHIM? ALSO IS 2.2KW SPINDLE ABLE MILL ALUMINUM WHAT ACCURACY?

BYCNC response:

Milling aluminum is no problem with our machines.

Here is a video we recently did with our 4'x8' machine. The aluminum piece is about 1/4" thick: https://buildyourcnc.com/tutorials/tutorial-greenbull-aluminum-cutting

The accuracy you will see from our our 2.2kW spindle is entirely dependent on the precision of your build, so it's not possible to say what level of accuracy you can achieve without an examination of the complete system. However, our spindles have a runout of less than .0001 in, which includes the collets that we sell. If you use a collet from another manufacturer, we cannot guarantee this TIR (Total Indicated Runout) dimension.

User response:

User response:

BYCNC response:

• HI, I HAVE INTENTION OF PURCHASING YOUR 1/2 INCH PRECISION LEAD SCREW SET TO BUILD MY CNC MACHINE, COULD THE SCHEMATIC DIMENSION ANTI-BACKLASH NUT, BEARING FOR AND SHIM? ALSO IS 2.2KW SPINDLE ABLE MILL ALUMINUM WHAT ACCURACY?

BYCNC response:

Milling aluminum is no problem with our machines.

Here is a video we recently did with our 4'x8' machine. The aluminum piece is about 1/4" thick: https://buildyourcnc.com/tutorials/tutorial-greenbull-aluminum-cutting

The accuracy you will see from our our 2.2kW spindle is entirely dependent on the precision of your build, so it's not possible to say what level of accuracy you can achieve without an examination of the complete system. However, our spindles have a runout of less than .0001 in, which includes the collets that we sell. If you use a collet from another manufacturer, we cannot guarantee this TIR (Total Indicated Runout) dimension.

User response:

User response:

BYCNC response:

• I have a 2.2kw water cooled spindle with a YL620-H VFD. The VFD uses the P#-## program format. I believe I have all the correct settings setup but when I turn the unit on, it spins at about 200-300 RPM regardless of what frequency I choose. Do you have the correct program parameters in this format for this unit? Thank you for your help. Huibert Mees

You will need to look for the parameter that controls the run frequency. The frequency can be controlled bu the panel, external terminals, or the RS485 TX/RX terminals (UART protocol). You will want to change that parameter so it uses the panel. If you are referring to the maximum panel dial frequency is only allowing 200-300 rpm, then look for the parameters to control the frequency.

For 200 RPM:
Hz = 200/60 = 3.33 Hz

For 300 RPM:
Hz = 300/60 = 5 Hz

Conversion to RPM:
If you ever find yourself yearning to reverse-engineer the process, the formula is as follows:

RPM = Hz × 60

Look for values that match somewhere between 3 and 5 in your frequency parameters and replace them with 400 to give you 24,000 RPM max.

• I am building your "Green Bull' 6 foot wide kit and I am at the stage of attaching the motor and drive chain. I would like to know if you have an modification kit available to put the 1/2" ACME screw on the Y-axis?

Currently we do not have that modification kit, our set up is fixed for our greenBull only modification kit we have for this model is the long z-axis kit(Designed for Foam cutting).

• I am interested in buying the greenBull 5X Long Z CNC Machine Kit, but it is not clear for me what is included in this kit. Is there anything else I need to get the machine work?

The greenBull 4X comes with all of the components and electronics to assemble the gantry of the machine. You will need to build the table. We provide the rails and roller chain for the X-axis (along the length of the table for full 8 feet of travel). You will need to provide some wire to connect the electronics and a computer to run the machine. You will also need to purchase the software that you will need to run the machine that matches how you will apply the machine. We suggest the mach3 control program. The CAM program is up to you as there are many options out there.

I am interested in buying the greenBull 5X Long Z CNC Machine Kit, but it is not clear for me what is included in this kit. Is there anything else I need to get the machine work?

• thank you for the reply. I would be really good to know the calculation. The lead screw is 1/2" diameter with 13 TPI. Please provide the calculation for determing the maximum weight motor can handle on Z-axis on book build cnc. And one more question. If I am cutting 18mm MDF with 6mm cutting bit (so 6mm pass), what can be the maximum speed rate of cutting and spindle speed of router? thank you

There are two main questions that we can answer with respect to motor torque and the mechanical advantage of lead screws, 1) What torque motor do you need to lift a particular weight, or 2) What maximum weight will my motor torque be able to lift.

This formula uses Newtons (N) as it's final unit. Use this with the included radius (R) to determine the torque. Newtons can easily be converted to lbs or ounces using online conversions.

Effort = Sf + (Load/(2 x pi x (R/p) x Se))

where:
p = pitch of the screw
Se = screw efficiency = Standard lead screw will be between 20% (.2) and 40% (.4)
Sf = static force. This is the force that is needed to start the movement. The number may be eliminated, but it is good to use a number in the 5 N to 20 N range.
Load = the expected load that the effort will need to carry (i.e., the router and the included axis assembly that the motor will need to lift)

This formula is based on the "law of the machine"

The final effort amount with its unit of newtons and R will be the torque. For example, if the effort comes to 100 N (newtons) and the R is .5 inches, then you can assume that the effort is 50 N-in since it would take twice the effort to turn form the one inch mark from the center of the shaft.

Example:

Load = 90 N (20.2 lbs)
R = 1 inch since that is the length from the center of the shaft that the motor is rated
p = 1 inch / 13 = .08 inches

Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (2 x 3.14 x (1 / .08) x .2))
Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (6.28 x 12.5 x .2))
Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (15.7))
Effort = 5 N + (5.73 N)
Effort = 10.7 N = 2.4 lbs = 38.4 oz-in

I am putting the oz-in on the end because the formula considers the distance from the center of the shaft to be one inch.

Therefore, a 425 oz-in motor would be able to lift a 20.2 lb Router with its accompanying assembly. If the assembly and router is heavier, plug in the numbers and determine the effort required.

With a bit of algebra, the formula can be rewritten to find the load:

Load = (Effort - Sf) x (2 x pi x (R/p) x Se)

Another formula that does not consider friction at all:

Effort = (Load x p) / (2 x pi x R)

Lets see if we get similar results:

Effort = (20 lb x .08 inches) / (2 x 3.14 x 1)
Effort = 1.6 / 6.28 = .255 lbs = 4.08 oz-in

The results from both formulas appear to be very small because a 13 TPI screw will have enormous mechanical advantage.

It is evident that the first formula that does consider friction that we are loosely estimating is far more conservative than the second formula. Either way, even the most conservative formula shows that the 425 oz-in motor will handle very large weights. If you are using a lead screw with only two turns per inch, .5 inch pitch, you can determine the requirements with the first formula.

Example for a 10 TPI 5 start (2 turns per inch) lead screw:

Load = 90 N (20.2 lbs)
R = 1 inch since that is the length from the center of the shaft that the motor is rated
p = 1 inch / 2 = .5 inches

Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (2 x 3.14 x (1 / .5) x .2))
Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (6.28 x 2 x .2))
Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (2.512))
Effort = 5 N + (35.83 N)
Effort = 40.828 N = 9.18 lbs = 146.88 oz-in

Customer Response:
thank you so much

how do i calculate torque of stepper motor if lead screw coupled to motor shaft and load applied by lead screw on plate is 100 kg by vertically

Pls

1m 16mmdiameter ball screws calculations

What is the max load that 2 NEMA 17 stepper motors (spaced 2 feet apart, both will be pushing up on the same gantry) can lift while using a rod with the following specifications T8 OD 8mm Pitch 2mm Lead 4mm for each motor.

1

• Building the 2'x4' CNC from the Woodsmith plans and want to use a router with 1/2" collet. Will your stepper motor kit with 2 NEMA-23 and 1 NEMA-34 be sufficient for a Bosch 1617 router motor, or will it be too heavy?

You will be fine with using 2 NEMA 23/24 (425 oz-in) and 1 NEMA 34 (651 oz-in) motors with the Woodsmith CNC build with a large heavy router with a 1/2" collet. Specifically, the Woodsmith CNC build uses lead screws for each axis and this will provide mechanical advantage allowing the motors along with the drive mechanics (lead screws) an increase in torque.

• I recently received missing stop button and limit switches in my 5x kit. Thank you. Is there suppose to be any bulk wiring in kit for limit switches and 2.2 spindle? If not could you please describe correct gauge wire for both? Cheers.

The hookup wires you will need is 22 to 24 AWG stranded and shielded for the wiring of the limit switches and E_Stop. Our kit customers select various places for these switches, so we don't supply the wiring. If you don't use shielded cable, you will need to change the debounce setting in Mach3 (if that is the control program you are using).

We typically use 14 AWG stranded wire for the VFD to Spindle (U, V, W) connections.

• I wired my vfd (2.2kw version) and tried test running the spindle. I configured to your specs on this website, only issue is we got an error code. Err 02, do you know what this is? OR have a list of error codes? Thank you

Can you provide the model number of your VFD?

Yes, I have the "YL600 - 2S - 2K20"

It just came with a small booklet that is all in Chinese...

• I WIRED MY VFD (2.2KW VERSION) AND TRIED TEST RUNNING THE SPINDLE. CONFIGURED TO YOUR SPECS ON THIS WEBSITE, ONLY ISSUE IS WE GOT AN ERROR CODE. ERR 02, DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS? OR HAVE A LIST OF CODES? THANK

Can you provide the model number of your VFD?

Yes, I have the "YL600 - 2S - 2K20"

It just came with a small booklet that is all in Chinese...

I WIRED MY VFD (2.2KW VERSION) AND TRIED TEST RUNNING THE SPINDLE. CONFIGURED TO YOUR SPECS ON THIS WEBSITE, ONLY ISSUE IS WE GOT AN ERROR CODE. ERR 02, DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS? OR HAVE A LIST OF CODES? THANK

• Regarding 1/2" 5 start and 10 TPI ACME precision lead screw, what the maximum length you can ship within USA? I'm looking for something like 100" and I could use a 1" screw if available. Please include estimated price. Thanks.

The maximum length we can ship is a total of 78" inches. However we can send your required length in portions. Please refer to adding the total items you require to your cart to get a visualized amount and shipping cost.

• You built the first 36 inch Blue Chick for me. One of the V-Groove bearings on the X-axis froze. Is there a method of repairing this? Or do I order another and a spare. If so, what is the procedure to repair or order?

If your bearing does not turn anymore, it is possible to repair the frozen bearing.

You can carefully remove the shield on one side of the bearing. Use a very thin blade to remove the shield.

Once the shield is removed, use WD-40 or kerosene to wash out and clean any debris that exists within the bearing. WD-40 is a cleaner, not a lubrication agent.

You will then need to re-lubricate the bearing. Packing grease into the bearing will provide good protection not allowing too much metal on metal friction. There will be a layer of grease separating the ball bearings from the inner and outer races.

If you have a production environment, you may want to purchase extra bearings so that you will not have any down time.

If you have a rubber shield, just pry it out using any sharp object, like a utility knife. If your bearing has a metal shield, there may be a retaining ring along the outer race keeping the shield in place. Simply remove the retaining ring and the metal shield will fall out easily. If the metal shield does not have a retaining ring, that shield will not be able to be removed and a new bearing will need to be purchased to replace the frozen bearing.

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