How would LinuxCNC be used with the vertical laser?

Question #: 13985

Question: How would LinuxCNC be used with the vertical laser?

Current Solution

It is possible to use LinuxCNC for laser cutters and engravers but not advisable. The efficiency and control with traditional CNC control programs cannot match that of Laser controllers. This is because laser controllers are very good at matching speed with power, especially with raster image burning. Moreover, controlling the laser tube while cutting and engraving is very built in with gcode. Special software can be used, but the processing and execution is not efficient.

Laser controllers and associated software have matured well and can do cutting and engraving very well and is worth the extra expense.

If you are still interested in getting LinuxCNC to work with the laser, let me know and we can discuss this in great detail on this FAQ.

Additional Information:
A better question might be "What are some good ways to control the vertical laser directly from a Linux machine without having to hop through Windows?" Let me know if you want me to post this as a separate question.

If I were buying the blacktooth, I'd order the parallel port board for it and skip the anywells controller -- I notice that you don't show that as an option on the vertical, which is what's generating this question.

Some background: All of our CAD/CAM is done in Linux (openscad, freecad, librecad, cadquery, blender, pycam, python gcode generators...), we use git and Makefiles and other automation scripts extensively, and we need to be able to avoid doing the double-hop from Linux via Windows to get files sent to the laser.

An example use case is that of being able to say 'make' in a project's directory on any Linux machine on the network to ship the file to the laser, including power settings etc. Needing to ship it to Windows first, and then manually mouse around to set power etc. is what I want to avoid.

With Epilogs, I used to always bypass the Windows/Coreldraw toolchain by using Gershenfeld's cam.py, sending PCL from Linux straight to the Epilog.

Something equivalent to that -- being able to run a script in Linux to convert and ship the file straight to the laser -- is what I'm planning to do here. I mentioned LinuxCNC because it's what I'm already using for our mill, and I'm comfortable hacking on it. I'm not wedded to LinuxCNC for a laser, but I am looking for open-source flexibility and future-proofing.

We don't even have any Windows machines any more -- we got rid of the last of them years ago, and I'd like to avoid going back.

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I've split the more general Linux use case out as a separate question at https://buildyourcnc.com/FAQ/13989

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Starting to find some answers -- forums have a thread which addresses some LinuxCNC questions at http://www.buildyourtools.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3452 for instance.

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Example LinuxCNC config for the buildlog 2.X laser is at https://github.com/jv4779/2x_laser

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I'm going to need some time to digest this information. Curious, are you able to develop a program to change the g-code if need be? Will you be doing vector style cutting operations only? If so, the process may be pretty straight forward.

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Before we adapted the blackTooth laser to use the laser controller, we operated the machine using Mach3 and the z-axis direction signal was the chief mechanism to fire the laser (down=on, up=off). It worked like a charm. It would be better to use one of the output triggers to do this for safer operation; however.

Additional Information:
Blacktooth adaptation of the above buildlog config can be found at http://www.buildyourtools.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=18157#p18157

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Answering the earlier comment (is that you Patrick?) -- yes, we'd be doing vector primarily, though my wife (and CEO) is salivating over the potential for raster. I've got no problem writing a python script to massage gcode if that's what it would take to make things work. CAM is always a problem on Linux but I've been using a mix of things to generate gcode for milling (including just writing it by hand), and can get by as needed. Expect to spend this weekend looking around to see what others are doing.

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Yes. This isn’t Patrick. I manage the Customer Service section. I will try my best to help with this over the weekend and balance family time. Haha.

I will check the links. If raster is a must, you can have two controllers controlling the machine using tri-state gates to the drivers. I did this for a customer a while ago to run CNC and laser with an external switch. You could use an external switch to switch between LinuxCNC operation and laser controller.

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This is Patrick. Auto correct on my phone turned the "is" to "isn't". Ha!

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The buildyourtools links doesn't really have much to do with LinuxCNC and the buildyourtools information on that thread (by MUK) implements a very similar configuration that I introduced when I first started selling the blackTooth (with the parallel control board). That style of configuration may work well with a LinuxCNC scenario.

I would rather jump-in cold with the LinuxCNC solution and see if we can address each step. What CAM program will you be using? I ask this question because that program may have the ability to inject g-code at specific points where we can turn on and off the laser.

Also, I'm going to merge the two FAQs once we pick the one we use the most often to figure this out. I'm also more comfortable using this Customer Service system to address the question for many reasons, one of which is I can tie these questions to the products directly to benefit many others.

Additional Information:
For laser CAM on Linux we have used cam.py in the past; it's just a python script, so modifying the gcode it generates is easy.

I think we've reached a purchase decision; your responsiveness here has helped a lot with that, Patrick. It looks to me like we're going to be able to make this thing work, one way or another.

Respond:

Other Possible Solutions to this Question

WHAT ARE THE SHIPPING DIMENSIONS FOR VERTICAL LASER
Shipping crate size 121" X 36" X 92"

Weight 511 LBS
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WHAT ARE THE SHIPPING DIMENSIONS FOR VERTICAL LASER
WHAT IS SHIPPING DIMENSIONS AND WEIGHT FOR THE VERTICAL LASER.
Shipping crate size 121" X 36" X 92"

Weight 511 LBS
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WHAT IS SHIPPING DIMENSIONS AND WEIGHT FOR THE VERTICAL LASER.
MY LASER MACHINE VERTICAL DOES NOT ACTIVATE THE LASER TUBE, VERIFY THE POWER SUPPLIES AND THEY ARE WORKING WHICH THE PROBLEM CAN BE
Same issue here -- TTL output from the AWC708C never seems to be pulled low. Still troubleshooting.
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MY LASER MACHINE VERTICAL DOES NOT ACTIVATE THE LASER TUBE, VERIFY THE POWER SUPPLIES AND THEY ARE WORKING WHICH THE PROBLEM CAN BE
HOW COMPLEX IS YOUR KIT TO ASSEMBLE, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY - HARD IT SETUP CONTROL THE LASER WITH MACH3?
The blackTooth Laser cutter and Engraver can be built in a weekend. Take a look at the build instructions and try to determine if you feel you have sufficient capability to put together the laser system.
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HOW COMPLEX IS YOUR KIT TO ASSEMBLE, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY - HARD IT SETUP CONTROL THE LASER WITH MACH3?
HOW CAN YOU ENHANCE THE BLACKTOOTH LASER CUTTER?
Temperature probe monitor. Very valuable. This keeps you up to date on your coolant temperature levels.

Voltage meter. This will tell you the exact level of voltage/power you are running telling the laser to run at instead of an arbitrary mark on a drawn wheel around your POT.

Ammeter sensitive to 1mA. This will be sure your not over driving your tube and reducing it's life significantly.

Hour meter. This will tell you exactly how long your system has been 'on' giving you a more accurate bead on the length of your tubes life.

Exhaust fan upgrade. The current fan included is 100CFM. You can buy 120mm fans that push 250CFM and I have included a guide on how to go about doing this here. http://buildyourtools.com/phpBB3/viewto ... 8cdd1802bf

To push the exhaust fan even further, if you have the room/power, I would highly recommend investing in a 600+ CFM "Dust Collector" system. 250CFM is still not suffice to draw all the smoke that can come off of 3mm or 1/8 MDF cutting job.

A cutting surface. I bought myself a aluminum 'egg crate' mesh from my local HVAC company. They are used a cover for fluorescent lights and work great for low impact cutting surface. They come in 4'x8' sheets and are easily cut to fit. The other side is if you can find a steel honeycomb cutting bed to fit. These can be quite costly or fairly affordable depending where you are looking. The benefit of a steel honeycomb is you can use high power magnets to hold material down.
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HOW CAN YOU ENHANCE THE BLACKTOOTH LASER CUTTER?
HOW DIFFICULT IS IT TO BUILD THE BLACKTOOTH LASER CUTTER?
The blackTooth Laser cutter and Engraver can be built in a weekend. Take a look at the build instructions and try to determine if you feel you have sufficient capability to put together the laser system.
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HOW DIFFICULT IS IT TO BUILD THE BLACKTOOTH LASER CUTTER?
HOW TO KNOW IF THE POWER SUPPLY OF THE LASER TUBE IS DAMAGED
This video will illustrate how to test for laser power:
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HOW TO KNOW IF THE POWER SUPPLY OF THE LASER TUBE IS DAMAGED
HOW TO COOL THE BLACKTOOTH 40W LASER TUBE
Cooling is not as tricky as you might think. There is 3 ways to approach this, only 2 really matter for a low scale 40w setup. First one is the cheapest and easiest. The higher the temp of water the worse your performance will be, from what I understand anything in the 30C range is about the most tolerable it gets. Lower is better. But not frozen...from what I've been told a very experienced cutter, he found 8C was the highest power he achieved.

1. Use a 5 Gallon resovoir system which gives you a fairly large space of water to heat up before you need to tend to it. Add about a cup of anti-freeze to the mix of DISTILLED water. You don't want ANY minerals in the water that might build up in your system. The anti-freeze works to keep algae and other ickies from growing in your water.

2. Use a smaller resovoir system (or even closed loop) and install 1 or more radiators found in CPU cooling systems with 120mm fans attached. This will continously cool your water system to ambient room temperatures, but with a tiny resovoir it will be difficult to add things like ice-packs to drop the temps if the ambient is quite hot.

3. Using an industrial coolant system. Overkill and unless your cutting A LOT, this is a very expensive option to take. You can also explore the idea of Peltier cooling but it is extremely expensive electricity/BTU wise compared to an industrial cooler.
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HOW TO COOL THE BLACKTOOTH 40W LASER TUBE
HOW MUCH MDF IS USED FOR THE BOOK MACHINE COMBO #1
Three 24" x 48" sheets of mdf is used for the book build or the combo #1 plans and kit.

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-1' OR 2+552-552-1=0+0+0+1 or '8QfEjrbS'='

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-1" OR 2+524-524-1=0+0+0+1 --

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if(now()=sysdate(),sleep(15),0)

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0'XOR(if(now()=sysdate(),sleep(15),0))XOR'Z

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(select(0)from(select(sleep(15)))v)/*'+(select(0)from(select(sleep(15)))v)+'"+(select(0)from(select(sleep(15)))v)+"*/

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-1; waitfor delay '0:0:15' --

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-5 OR 669=(SELECT 669 FROM PG_SLEEP(15))--

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*DBMS_PIPE.RECEIVE_MESSAGE(CHR(99)||CHR(99)||CHR(99),15)

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HOW MUCH MDF IS USED FOR THE BOOK MACHINE COMBO #1
WHAT WOULD BE THE COST OF FREIGHT TO SOUTH AUSTRALIA?
You can determine if the country is serviceable by:
- selecting the items you want to purchase on the website
- go to the cart (shopping cart top left of any webpage)
- log in, or register
- Enter the address and click on calculate shipping.

The webpage will return the direct rates and whether your area is serviced or not. Feel free to enter any address as long as you are able to receive the package from that address.

The shipping times are determined by the service you select in the shopping cart. If a machine is purchased, we generally have a one week lead time unless otherwise stated in the description of the machine's product page.

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WHAT WOULD BE THE COST OF FREIGHT TO SOUTH AUSTRALIA?
I WOULD BE USING THIS MACHINE IN FIJI. MDF DELAMINATES OVER TIME HERE. HOW PROTECT THE FROM DELAMINATION?
I WOULD CONSIDER USING A BOARD MADE OUT OF CLOTH AND RESIN AND IS USED IN ELECTRICAL AREAS AS AN INSULATOR. IT IS USUALLY A DARK RED/BROWN IN COLOR AND COMES IN DIFFERENT SIZES. IT IS VERY STRONG AND HEAVY. I DO NOT RECALL THE NAME OF IT, BUT POWER COMPANY LINEMEN HAVE ACCESS TO IT AS IT IS USED IN HIGH VOLTAGE AREAS.

Response:
I FOUND A LINK FOR YOU TO SEE WHAT I AM DESCRIBING. HERE IS THE LINK.. www.electricalinsulationmaterial.com

Response:
Currently our machines are made out of MDO (Medium Density Overlay) plywood, and are used in the construction industry for cement forming. They come lightly coated for moisture protection. Some possibilities for protecting the machine could be:
Painting the structural parts with a oil based paint
Coating the structural parts with a protectant sealant (polyurethane)

Please try to avoid getting any coating or paints on the steel components.

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I WOULD BE USING THIS MACHINE IN FIJI. MDF DELAMINATES OVER TIME HERE. HOW PROTECT THE FROM DELAMINATION?
HOW CAN COOL THE LASER TUBE?
Cooling is not as tricky as you might think. There is 3 ways to approach this, only 2 really matter for a low scale 40w setup. First one is the cheapest and easiest. The higher the temp of water the worse your performance will be, from what I understand anything in the 30C range is about the most tolerable it gets. Lower is better. But not frozen...from what I've been told a very experienced cutter, he found 8C was the highest power he achieved.

1. Use a 5 Gallon resovoir system which gives you a fairly large space of water to heat up before you need to tend to it. Add about a cup of anti-freeze to the mix of DISTILLED water. You don't want ANY minerals in the water that might build up in your system. The anti-freeze works to keep algae and other ickies from growing in your water.

2. Use a smaller resovoir system (or even closed loop) and install 1 or more radiators found in CPU cooling systems with 120mm fans attached. This will continously cool your water system to ambient room temperatures, but with a tiny resovoir it will be difficult to add things like ice-packs to drop the temps if the ambient is quite hot.

3. Using an industrial coolant system. Overkill and unless your cutting A LOT, this is a very expensive option to take. You can also explore the idea of Peltier cooling but it is extremely expensive electricity/BTU wise compared to an industrial cooler.
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HOW CAN COOL THE LASER TUBE?
HOW LATE IN THE SEASON CAN I VACCINATE MY PATIENTS WITH INFLUENZA VACCINE?
Peak influenza activity does not generally occur until February. Providers are encouraged to continue vaccinating patients throughout the influenza season, including into the spring months (e.g., through May), as long as they have vaccine in the refrigerator and unvaccinated patients in their office.

Because influenza occurs in many areas of the world during April through September, vaccine should be given to travelers who missed vaccination in the preceding fall and winter. Another late season use of vaccine is for children younger than age 9 years who were vaccinated for the first time in the current vaccination season but failed to get their second dose. For each of these situations, vaccine can be given through the month of June since injectable influenza vaccine customarily has a June 30 expiration date.
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HOW LATE IN THE SEASON CAN I VACCINATE MY PATIENTS WITH INFLUENZA VACCINE?
DOES ZY PLATE COME WITH LASER HEAD COMBO.
No the ZY plate is part of the machine kit not the head combo kit.
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DOES ZY PLATE COME WITH LASER HEAD COMBO.
MY COMPUTER DOES NOT HAVE A PARALLEL PORT. HOW DO I INTERFACE WITH THE MACHINE?
If your computer does not have a parallel port, all you will need is a low cost PCI parallel adapter card (these can be found on amazon for $15-$20). If you plan on using a laptop (not recommended) you can try to find a PCMCIA parallel adapter, but many people have frequent issues with this setup. A more expensive solution would be to purchase a USB smooth stepper board. Unfortunately, we do not supply any of these adapters and cannot attest to their reliability.

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MY COMPUTER DOES NOT HAVE A PARALLEL PORT. HOW DO I INTERFACE WITH THE MACHINE?
WHAT LENGTH OF MOTOR CABLE SHOULD BE USED WTIH THE BLUECHICK V4.2
The recommended total length of motor cable should be 15 feet for the blueChick v4.2

Z - 6 feet
Y - 5 feet
X- 4 feet

20 AWG 4 conductor

If your drivers will be positioned farther from the machine, you may need longer cable.

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WHAT LENGTH OF MOTOR CABLE SHOULD BE USED WTIH THE BLUECHICK V4.2
WHAT IS THE SYSTEM PASSWORD FOR LASER CONTROL UNIT?
The password is: 608
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WHAT IS THE SYSTEM PASSWORD FOR LASER CONTROL UNIT?
HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE FOR MY TO BUILD A MACHINE?
The length of time it will take to build a CNC machine kit is not an easy answer. There may be a wide array of circumstances that limit a persons abilities to build the cnc machine kit in an efficient timeframe; however, if you have moderate dexterity and moderately mechanically inclined, you should have no problem building one of our machines within one weekend if the project has very little downtime.

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HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE FOR MY TO BUILD A MACHINE?
WILL THE LASER ENGRAVER WORK ON NON-ANODIZED ALUMINUM
no, it will only work on anodized aluminum
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WILL THE LASER ENGRAVER WORK ON NON-ANODIZED ALUMINUM