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Question #: 3434

Question: My Z axis stepper is "cogging," new problem on an older machine, any solutions?

Current Solution

If by cogging, you are referring to the lack of torque by the presence of the lack of current to the motor, I would check the wires coming from the motor to see if there is any chafing, causing either shorting, or a connection issue. This happens on older motors due to the method of holding the wires steady using zip ties or other form that can cut the insulation of the wires. If you see this phenomenon only at specific locations on the axis, then wire chafing could be the culprit. But, can also be friction on the lead screw/anti-backlash nut.

Check the anti-backlash nut for any presence of oily debris. Remove this debris and re-lubricate the lead screw.

Check between the coupling at the motor shaft and the bearing that is positioned against the coupling. There should be a small outside diameter shim washer between the coupling and the inside race of the bearing. If there is no shim washer, then the coupling is rubbing against the outside race, causing friction, or binding.

If these methods do not work, please submit additional information on this FAQ page using the additional information button and a new solution will be submitted by us.

Customer response:
Thank you for your quick response. I found the Z-axis binding with the anti-backlash nut. What would you recommend to lubricate the anti-backlash nut and lead screw?

Additional answer:
I would recommend using 3-in-1 oil to lubricate the lead screw and the anti-backlash nut. Don't worry about the material of the anti-backlash nut breaking down since it is made of Delrin, a plastic that can be exposed to lubricants and oils.

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Other Possible Solutions to this Question

  • THE DUST SHOE HAS STIFF BRISTLES, IS THERE PROBLEM WITH MOVING Z-AXIS DOWN SINCE BRISTLES PUSH AXIS SIDEWAYS

    A couple things to consider, the machine is most likely moving sideways, so the bristles won't be a problem. The lead screw has a very hight mechanical advantage and the bristles don't pose an issue with this. We have not found that the bristles cause any appreciable deflection to the work we do in our shop; however, you can change the brush for a more pliable plastic, or reduce the number of bristles by selectively pruning.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    THE DUST SHOE HAS STIFF BRISTLES, IS THERE PROBLEM WITH MOVING Z-AXIS DOWN SINCE BRISTLES PUSH AXIS SIDEWAYS

  • I have your Nema 24 electronics kit and am having problems with the Z axis dropping over time. I am using a PC 8902 motor. Any ideas on what the problem is? What should be the motor tuning values in Mach3? Thanks

    Make sure all your bolts/screws are tighten correctly and if using a lead screw make sure your anti-backlash nut is not offset. Now a default setting will be 10101100 for your driver dip switch settings and in motor tuning (mach3) 1600 steps per, 400.02 velocity, 4 in acceleration. now the acceleration and velocity can be adjusted to move your machine faster, but if set to high they could stall. Make sure you have the correct wiring from your motor to your driver (https://www.buildyourcnc.com/Documents/PN.SM60HT86-2008BF-U%20(inhouse%20PN.60BYGH303-13)%20(1).pdf).

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I have your Nema 24 electronics kit and am having problems with the Z axis dropping over time. I am using a PC 8902 motor. Any ideas on what the problem is? What should be the motor tuning values in Mach3? Thanks

  • Is it possible to increase the Z axis on the Blacktoe 2x4? My ideal would be to have 8" of travel.

    Increasing the size on your Z-axis is possible by making the over z axis longer (rails, wood structure). Remember the location of your router/spindle and over all integrity of the z-axis structure.
    Now another way of getting a longer reach is making a adjustable height table, so that you can raise or lower the material section(2' x 4') to add taller material or get a deeper cut.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    Is it possible to increase the Z axis on the Blacktoe 2x4? My ideal would be to have 8" of travel.

  • My mechanical limits work by changing color on computer when tripped but the stepper motors don't stop on X and Y only Z.

    Please let us know which board and machine you are using so that we can help you troubleshoot the problem.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    My mechanical limits work by changing color on computer when tripped but the stepper motors don't stop on X and Y only Z.

  • is IT OK TO USE THICKER PLYWOOD (MATERIAL) to BUILD THE CNC MACHINE, BLACKFOOT, BLACKTOE?

    Yes, it is ok if the thickness is plus or minus +/- about 2mm.

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    is IT OK TO USE THICKER PLYWOOD (MATERIAL) to BUILD THE CNC MACHINE, BLACKFOOT, BLACKTOE?

  • [816] PLS HELP ON TEST MODE THE LED DO COME ON BUT THERE IS NO MOVEMENT ON THE Z AXIS

    Are you using Mach3 or Mach4?

    Additional Information:
    using Mach3

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    [816] PLS HELP ON TEST MODE THE LED DO COME ON BUT THERE IS NO MOVEMENT ON THE Z AXIS

  • I HAVE ONE OF YOUR SMALLER STEPPER MOTORS RUNNING MY X AXIS BRIDGE CRANE AND IF IT IS MOVED TO FAST THE MOTOR SOUNDS LIKE SKIPPING STEPS WILL 651OZ REQUIRE A DIFFERENT POWER SUPPLY CONTROLER?

    Yes, the 651 oz/in motor requires a driver that is compatible to the motors (the motor will draw 6 amps max and the driver paired with this motor will be able to allow for a 6 amp draw). I would also recommend a 36 volt power supply for better high velocity performance.

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    I HAVE ONE OF YOUR SMALLER STEPPER MOTORS RUNNING MY X AXIS BRIDGE CRANE AND IF IT IS MOVED TO FAST THE MOTOR SOUNDS LIKE SKIPPING STEPS WILL 651OZ REQUIRE A DIFFERENT POWER SUPPLY CONTROLER?

  • I bought a Blacktoe 2 x 8 three years ago and have always had a problem with the Zid axis. No matter how tightly I've calibrated the axis it always cuts to deep. Can I put a larger Stepper motor on Z-axis using the same motion electronics that came with the original machine.

    Modifying the Z-axis to accommodate a larger motor will be a worth while task and is possible, however we have not calibrated the z-axis therefore using the 1600 Steps-per inch in the motor tuning on our machine in our shop. We have not noticed any significant depth increments from not calibrating the z-axis but only from zeroing the z axis too close to the material. Also in your design did you specify the actual depth and the length of tool (end mill/ bit) that you are using?

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    I bought a Blacktoe 2 x 8 three years ago and have always had a problem with the Zid axis. No matter how tightly I've calibrated the axis it always cuts to deep. Can I put a larger Stepper motor on Z-axis using the same motion electronics that came with the original machine.

  • IT OK TO USE THICKER PLYWOOD (MATERIAL) BUILD THE CNC MACHINE, BLACKFOOT, BLACKTOE?

    Yes, it is ok if the thickness is plus or minus +/- about 2mm.

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    Additional Information:

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    IT OK TO USE THICKER PLYWOOD (MATERIAL) BUILD THE CNC MACHINE, BLACKFOOT, BLACKTOE?

  • WHAT CAUSES ONE OF MY TWO AXIS MOTORS TO STOP WHILE THE MACH3 PROGRAM IS STILL RUNNING

    If one of your stepper motors decides to stop moving and the others are moving during a CNC milling or laser cutting job, then there could be two things that could be causing this.

    - The motor found its limiting torque (usually comes with a not-so-pleasant sound). This is where the control software is trying to move the stepper motor too fast (velocity, or too fast too quickly, acceleration) and the load against the stepper motor (inertia of the machine, or the material against the end mill while milling). Recommended action is to lower the velocity and/or acceleration, and/or lower the feedrate when cutting.

    - There is a wiring issue with the wiring from the driver to the motor. This could be a loose wire, or a chafed wire (or two shorting together). It can also be a loose digital wire from the controller board to the driver. Sometimes wire ties can be the culprit. Recommended action would be to thoroughly inspect the wiring.

    It's probably not the limit switches since that would cause a stop to the entire motion of the cnc router or laser machine.

    Sometimes Mach3 will show a status when something goes wrong, but in cases where the motor is stopping due to its torque limit, then that would not be shown in the status. It's always good to check it anyway.

    Additional Information:
    I need to clarify my situation a little better after going to my shop and trying to run another program on Mach 3. About 15 minutes into the milling process all the motors (2-X axis, Y axis and Z axis)stop but the program continues to run. I stop the program and after a couple of minutes when I try to restart the program all the motors start working again. Then after another 15 minutes or so, all the motors stop again. I checked and rechecked my wiring. This has never happened to me before when running the same programs with the same setups and motor speeds. All of a sudden when I reloaded a program I successfully used before it does this. Do you have any recommendations?

    Additional Information:
    Yeah, it sounds like a more complex issue. Have you tried running in the air without using the spindle. This may be a power related issue.

    Additional Information:
    That's exactly what I did. I ran the program without the router motor on just to see if the motors would get through the whole program but they stopped working after about fifteen minutes and then I was able to start them again after about 3 or 4 minutes. I never had this problem before so you can imagine my frustration especially after ruining a couple of projects on expensive material.

    Additional Information:
    Sure. I can completely understand. Try this: disconnect all but one of the driver from power and digital connection and do the air run. Repeat this for each driver and note your findings. This will rule out the drivers causing a power failure.

    Also, is your stepper motors and drivers on a separate power circuit from the computer?

    Additional Information:
    I will try disconnecting each driver and digital connection, which will be a real pain because it will be hard to access.

    All the stepper motors, drivers and computer are plugged into the same power strip.

    Additional Information:
    Ok, so there is no power failure going on, but I believe it is necessary to test each stepper motor and driver pair individually. Hopefully that will lead to a conclusion.

    Additional Information:
    It will take a little time but I will do it and report back on my findings.

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    Curious, what machine is exhibiting this problem?

    Additional Information:
    I purchased a BYCNC kit back in 2009 with an approximate cutting area of 2' X 4'. I later changed out the Z-Axis Motor and controller for a larger one and have two X-axis motors and controllers. In 2010 I rebuilt the machine out of birch plywood instead of the particle board that the kit supplied. I sent Patrick pictures to him. The machine never gave me a problem till now.

    Additional Information:
    Thanks for the update. This is Patrick by the way. I answer pretty much all of the Customer Service questions. That machine has given quite a good history.

    Additional Information:
    I love the machine and made a number of samples of my work for my e-commerce site, but I can't start selling product until I know this problem is solved because I will not be able to fulfill orders. I finally got all the electronics out of its enclosed protected area near the machine so that I test each controller as you recommended. I hope the problem can be rectified. Will let you know.

    Additional Information:
    Thanks.

    Additional Information:
    I tested each stepper motor and driver pair individually and they worked so what might be the next step?

    Additional Information:
    Did each stepper motor driver pair work for the full +15 minutes?

    Additional Information:
    Yes, I had them in operation for over 30 minutes.

    Additional Information:
    Ok, well it’s good that the motors and driver are ok. We are now down to the power supply and the breakout board as possible causes for the stop. I have a feeling it may be the power supply where with all three drivers drawing current and the power supply maybe getting too hot. Is the fan in the power supply working? You can also test to see if there is 36 volts on the power supply voltage output (V+ and V-).

    Regarding the breakout board, if you have an oscilloscope, you can test if the driver pulses are outputting, but I would consider this as a last resort after you determine if there is a problem with the power supply.

    Additional Information:
    I tested the power supply with a voltmeter and each output was registering 39-40 volts. I think the problem may be the g-code. I am using V-Carve pro to do design and output to Mach 3 Mill g-code. When I studied the g-code lines I noticed that further into the program the z-axis g-code stopped zeroing out to move to the next part of the carving. In other words both the x and y keep moving and the z just stopped working because there was g-code missing. I think something is missing when the design was converted to g-code. I noticed that when I ran a simpler project it worked without problems so I need to investigate this further.

    Additional Information:
    New Update, Its not the g-code. I started to run the long program and everything was working fine until about 45 minutes into it, all the motors stopped working (but the program was still running) and there was a high pitched hum. When I put my hands on the motors they were all trying to move but it seemed they were all stalled. I turned the power off, gave it a minute and when I turned it back on I was able to move the motors again. Could this be a power supply problem?

    Additional Information:
    It does sound more and more like a power supply problem. Did you test the power supply after the motors stopped?

    Additional Information:
    No, I did not. What should I be looking for.

    Additional Information:
    It’s good that you know the voltage during normal operation, so you have a base understood. If the power supply is the problem, the voltage will be reduced or non existent when measured after the problem.

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    Also, check to see if the fan is running on the power supply when the motors stop. That may (not absolutely) be an indication.

    Additional Information:
    I'll run another test, check the voltage and fan when the problem occurs and let you know. Thanks for hanging in there with me as we try to resolve the problem.

    Additional Information:
    It’s my pleasure. This service is rarely used and is faster then email. Odd nobody uses it. Any recommendations you can give would be great. No problem using this FAQ to pose ideas as this resolution will be cleaned up later.

    Additional Information:
    It might be that people do not realize you can communicate through the sight like this because they are so used to e-mail and texting. You may want to explain this feature in the customer service section.

    I ran the program this morning and it did not take long before the motors stopped. While operating the voltages for all three motors was 46 volts, when the motors stalled (and again there was a high pitch hum) the voltage went up to 60 volts and the fan on the power supply was operating.

    Additional Information:
    So, the driver work individually, but not all together. There is a high pitch sound when the motors fail. You have noted 60 volts from the power supply and the supply fan remains on. This is a difficult issue to resolve, but it seems to me that your power supply may be bad. The 60v measurement tells me that the current dropped and ohms law tells us that is current drops, volts will rise if the resistance stays the same.

    Additional Information:
    As one last test I am going to test each driver again and let them go through the entire program because it seems that the failure can occur at the beginning or towards the end of the program. When I originally tested ach driver I let them run for about a half an hour and the program takes over an hour to run completely. I just want to make sure that it is not the drivers. I will report back when I finished but as you noted it may be the power supply but I want to make sure.

    Additional Information:
    That’s a great idea.

    Additional Information:
    I just ran the x-axis through the whole program and there was no problem especially since I have two NEMA 23 motors moving that axis. Before I check the Y and Z could having a NEMA 34 on the Z axis with appropriate controller be a problem. I used the larger motor on the z axis because the router I am using is a large 1 1/2 hp. I've run this program in the past with this set-up and have not had a problem.

    Additional Information:
    Having a, say 3.0 amp driver, driving a stepper motor that typically requires a 6 amp driver would not seem to be an issue since the driver is limiting the current draw, but the driver may not be able to handle larger coil and back EMF with the protection on the 3.0 amp driver. With that said, I don’t believe that is the issue in this case.

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    I don't either because I was able to run this and other complicated programs with this set-up in the past. I will let you know on the y and z axis.

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    Thanks

    Additional Information:
    I ran the Y axis and z axis separately through the entire program and there was no stopping or problem. I guess the culprit is the power supply and I'll order a new one and hope that resolves the problem.

    Additional Information:
    Yes, that is the most probable cause. Please keep me informed. Thanks!

    Additional Information:
    Received and installed the new power supply. I ran the program with the router on and it worked flawlessly. The program runs for an hour and a half and I did not have a single problem. I guess it was the power supply but I was glad to go through all the diagnostics we discussed before replacing it. I hope this power supply lasts a lot longer than the last one. Thanks much for hanging in there with me and coming up with the solution.

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    It’s my absolute pleasure and I am so happy to hear that the power supply replacement solved the problem.

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    Y axis stop working X & Z work fine Y axis has two motors have check wiring & connections new breakout board still the same port & Pin set OK dont no were to go next David

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    my cnc plasma cutter will run out the program when cutting. what is the cause?

    Additional Information:
    The cnc plasma question shod be a separate question. Can you pise that question by clicking the customer service live menu button at the top? Thanks.

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    WHAT CAUSES ONE OF MY TWO AXIS MOTORS TO STOP WHILE THE MACH3 PROGRAM IS STILL RUNNING

  • What are the specs for the stepper motors on the Bluechick? How much for shipping to Toronto, ON, Canada? Is there duty for shipping to Canada?

    Here is the answer to your first questions regarding the blueChick motors:
    https://buildyourcnc.com/FAQ/9024

    The shipping of the blueChick CNC will depend on if the machine is assembled or not. There is a duty for international orders, but I am unsure of the cost in other countries other than the US.

    Thanks

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    What are the specs for the stepper motors on the Bluechick? How much for shipping to Toronto, ON, Canada? Is there duty for shipping to Canada?

  • I there a tutorial on hooking up a Z axis zero touch plate to the usb controller?

    To use a touch plate on any controller, all you need is a conductive flat material with a known thickness and some wire and alligator clips. Solder a wire to the touch plate and connect the other end of the wire to the free input terminal of the controller. Connect a wire with an alligator clip to the ground of the controller (on the Mach3 USB controller, this ground is the DCM terminal, or the digital gnd on the 24VDC power supply). Connect the alligator clip to the end mill.

    You can either use a script to serve as the probe, or you can use the ref all home button and setup the touch plate as a home switch.

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    I there a tutorial on hooking up a Z axis zero touch plate to the usb controller?

  • OUR FIRST ATTEMPTS WERE WITH THE PLANET-CNC SOFTWARE, GOING THROUGH USB BOB. NO PROBLEM GETTING X & Y AXIS TO MOVE BUT UNABLE GET ANY ACTIVITY ON Z AXIS. WE THEN INSTALLED MANUAL SWITCH BETWEEN 5V AND TL, JOY. DISCONNECTED BOB FROM TH, MOVED OVER TH TL STILL

    Is the signal gnd on the laser power supply connected to a gnd on the breakout board? Do you hear a high pitched sound, like a TV set with an antenna getting interference, but with a high pitch?

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    OUR FIRST ATTEMPTS WERE WITH THE PLANET-CNC SOFTWARE, GOING THROUGH USB BOB. NO PROBLEM GETTING X & Y AXIS TO MOVE BUT UNABLE GET ANY ACTIVITY ON Z AXIS. WE THEN INSTALLED MANUAL SWITCH BETWEEN 5V AND TL, JOY. DISCONNECTED BOB FROM TH, MOVED OVER TH TL STILL

  • I have one of your smaller stepper motors running my X AXIS bridge crane and if it is moved to fast the stepper motor sounds like it is skipping steps will the 651oz stepper motor require a different power supply and controler?

    Yes, the 651 oz/in motor requires a driver that is compatible to the motors (the motor will draw 6 amps max and the driver paired with this motor will be able to allow for a 6 amp draw). I would also recommend a 36 volt power supply for better high velocity performance.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I have one of your smaller stepper motors running my X AXIS bridge crane and if it is moved to fast the stepper motor sounds like it is skipping steps will the 651oz stepper motor require a different power supply and controler?

  • What is the replacement Z axis motor for a SM60HT86-2008BF-U2?

    This is a NEMA 24 motor. It could be dual shaft or single shaft, so be sure to choose correctly. Holding torque is generally measured in Nm globally, and translated to ounces/inch in the United States. Our NEMA 24 motors are rated at 425 oz/in holding torque.

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    What is the replacement Z axis motor for a SM60HT86-2008BF-U2?

  • MY LASER MACHINE VERTICAL DOES NOT ACTIVATE THE LASER TUBE, VERIFY THE POWER SUPPLIES AND THEY ARE WORKING WHICH THE PROBLEM CAN BE

    Same issue here -- TTL output from the AWC708C never seems to be pulled low. Still troubleshooting.

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    MY LASER MACHINE VERTICAL DOES NOT ACTIVATE THE LASER TUBE, VERIFY THE POWER SUPPLIES AND THEY ARE WORKING WHICH THE PROBLEM CAN BE

  • WHAT IS THE FORMULA TO DETERMINE STEPS PER INCH OR RESOLUTION FOR EACH AXIS?

    The formula and calculation is a starting point to get into the area of steps per inch. You will then need to use the mach3 calibration utility to get the exact steps per inch.

    Formula:
    step per inch = (motor steps * microstepping) / (travel at one turn of the motor in inches)
    if microstepping is set at 16 (1/16 on the driver) then and you are using a sprocket and chain with a pitch of .25 inches and 12 teeth on the drive sprocket
    = (200 * 16) / (12 * .25)
    = 3200 / 3
    = 1066.666 steps per inch

    For lead screw that has a travel of .5 inches at one turn like the 5 start 1/2 inch lead screw and using 4 microsteps per step (1/4):
    = (200 * 4) / (.5)
    = 800 / .5
    = 1600 steps per inch

    Remember to use the mach3 calibration wizard and double check the driver microstep setting.

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    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    WHAT IS THE FORMULA TO DETERMINE STEPS PER INCH OR RESOLUTION FOR EACH AXIS?

  • HOW SERIOUS A PROBLEM INFLUENZA (THE FLU) IN THE U.S.?

    Influenza is the most frequent cause of death from a vaccine-preventable disease in the United States. From 1990 through 1999, an average of approximately 36,000 influenza-associated pulmonary and circulatory deaths occurred during each influenza season. In addition to fatalities, seasonal influenza is also responsible for more than 200,000 hospitalizations per year. Rates of infection from seasonal influenza are highest among children, but the risks for complications, hospitalizations, and deaths are higher among adults ages 65 and older, children younger than 5 years, and people of any age who have medical conditions that place them at increased risk for complications from influenza.

    A novel H1N1 virus was first detected in March of 2009 and quickly spread to pandemic levels. In the U.S., it is estimated that approximately 43-89 million persons became ill with 2009 pandemic H1N1 from April 2009 to April 2010. The virus also resulted in significant hospitalizations and deaths among children, adults 19-65 years, obese persons, and pregnant and post-partum women.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    HOW SERIOUS A PROBLEM INFLUENZA (THE FLU) IN THE U.S.?

  • how much will it cost to post the greenbull 6X to New Zealand? my post code is 0930 if that is needed. Thanks!

    You can use our shopping cart to determine the shipping. Add the machine and the parts you want to purchase, enter your shipping address and click on the Calculate Shipping Button to get a price for shipping. The shipping charges are determined directly from the carriers at the time of pressing that button.

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    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    how much will it cost to post the greenbull 6X to New Zealand? my post code is 0930 if that is needed. Thanks!

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