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### Question #: 970

Question: I am working with a Spur gear that has a 15 tooth 3/8 bore/ 3/8 wide....is the 651ozin stepper motor compatible with this or do I need to get a different motor

Current Solution

This gear should work with this motor. The shaft on the 651ozin motor is 3/8"

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### Other Possible Solutions to this Question

• [596] I am new to CNCs, curious to know what I need to look for in a pendant that would be compatible with this board and Mach4?

I recommend using a wireless pendant rather than one that is wired to the controller.

Here is a link to one on Amazon.com: https://amzn.to/3r3AfTm

This is an affiliate link.

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[596] I am new to CNCs, curious to know what I need to look for in a pendant that would be compatible with this board and Mach4?

• I need the calculation to determine the stepper motor torque to find the load that it can lift using a lead screw at 1/2" diameter with 13 TPI.

There are two main questions that we can answer with respect to motor torque and the mechanical advantage of lead screws, 1) What torque motor do you need to lift a particular weight, or 2) What maximum weight will my motor torque be able to lift.

This formula uses Newtons (N) as it's final unit. Use this with the included radius (R) to determine the torque. Newtons can easily be converted to lbs or ounces using online conversions.

Effort = Sf + (Load/(2 x pi x (R/p) x Se))

where:
p = pitch of the screw
Se = screw efficiency = Standard lead screw will be between 20% (.2) and 40% (.4)
Sf = static force. This is the force that is needed to start the movement. The number may be eliminated, but it is good to use a number in the 5 N to 20 N range.
Load = the expected load that the effort will need to carry (i.e., the router and the included axis assembly that the motor will need to lift)
R = radius of the lead screw

This formula is based on the "law of the machine"

The final effort amount with its unit of newtons and R will be the torque. For example, if the effort comes to 100 N (newtons) and the R is .5 inches, then you can assume that the effort is 50 N-in since it would take twice the effort to turn form the one inch mark from the center of the shaft.

Example:

Load = 90 N (20.2 lbs)
R = 1 inch since that is the length from the center of the shaft that the motor is rated
p = 1 inch / 13 = .08 inches

Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (2 x 3.14 x (1 / .08) x .2))
Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (6.28 x 12.5 x .2))
Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (15.7))
Effort = 5 N + (5.73 N)
Effort = 10.7 N = 2.4 lbs = 38.4 oz-in

I am putting the oz-in on the end because the formula considers the distance from the center of the shaft to be one inch.

Therefore, a 425 oz-in motor would be able to lift a 20.2 lb Router with its accompanying assembly. If the assembly and router is heavier, plug in the numbers and determine the effort required.

With a bit of algebra, the formula can be rewritten to find the load:

Load = (Effort - Sf) x (2 x pi x (R/p) x Se)

Another formula that does not consider friction at all:

Effort = (Load x p) / (2 x pi x R)

Lets see if we get similar results:

Effort = (20 lb x .08 inches) / (2 x 3.14 x 1)
Effort = 1.6 / 6.28 = .255 lbs = 4.08 oz-in

The results from both formulas appear to be very small because a 13 TPI screw will have enormous mechanical advantage.

It is evident that the first formula that does consider friction that we are loosely estimating is far more conservative than the second formula. Either way, even the most conservative formula shows that the 425 oz-in motor will handle very large weights. If you are using a lead screw with only two turns per inch, .5 inch pitch, you can determine the requirements with the first formula.

Example for a 10 TPI 5 start (2 turns per inch) lead screw:

Load = 90 N (20.2 lbs)
R = 1 inch since that is the length from the center of the shaft that the motor is rated
p = 1 inch / 2 = .5 inches

Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (2 x 3.14 x (1 / .5) x .2))
Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (6.28 x 2 x .2))
Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (2.512))
Effort = 5 N + (35.83 N)
Effort = 40.828 N = 9.18 lbs = 146.88 oz-in

Customer Response:
thank you so much

how do i calculate torque of stepper motor if lead screw coupled to motor shaft and load applied by lead screw on plate is 100 kg by vertically

Pls

1m 16mmdiameter ball screws calculations

What is the max load that 2 NEMA 17 stepper motors (spaced 2 feet apart, both will be pushing up on the same gantry) can lift while using a rod with the following specifications T8 OD 8mm Pitch 2mm Lead 4mm for each motor.

1

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I need the calculation to determine the stepper motor torque to find the load that it can lift using a lead screw at 1/2" diameter with 13 TPI.

• What would I need to purchase to increase the Z axis stepper motor up one size from the one that comes with the Blacktoe 4.1 with computer? I can't get Patrick to answer e-mails, so I'll try here.

Thanks for the question. The blackToe z-axis motor is a NEMA 24 425 oz-in stepping motor and the next step up is a NEMA 34 651 oz-in motor located here: https://buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-nema34-651ozin

To make it work on the blackToe CNC machine, you would need to fabricate a new mount and the top bearing mount, or request us to fabricate it for you by calling the office.

Curious, why the need to increase the size? If the motor is having a difficult time, there may be a deeper mechanical issue at play. One issue you may have is that the bearings are needing shim washers to separate the inner and outer races. If the two races are rubbing against the coupling or collar, the bearing may be difficult to turn under the weight of the assembly. If there is too much friction between the anti-backlash nut and the lead screw, you can add some 2-in-1 oil, or other similar lubricant.

Thank you for using our Customer Service Live. Patrick often answers these questions. We prefer this system over email as these questions will benefit others.

If you have additional questions or need more explanation relating to this question, please add to this answer.

User response:
I have added the shim washer between the bearing and coupling and have always used a light oil on the lead screw. I halved the acceleration on the Z-axis. Then I re-ran a topo that took two hours on the finish pass. No change in my results - the Z-axis slowly dropped until when the program finished and everything went back to the start point, the Z axis was lower by 0.378 inches than when it started at 0.800 above the surface.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Maybe I need more shim washers in the assembly between all the bearing surfaces?

buildyourcnc response:
Before you add a larger motor, check these first:

1. take the motor off by remove only the motor screws and removing the motor as well as the coupling half that is secured to the motor shaft.

2. Turn the lead screw by hand. This will still be connected to the z-axis assembly by the anti-backlash nut, so you will feel the resistance in the upward motion of the z-axis. Does it feel relatively easy to turn, or very difficult?

3. If the resistance is relatively normal with respect to gravity and normal friction between the anti-backlash nut and the screw, then you may want to half the velocity as well on the z-axis motor tuning, and even reduce the acceleration a bit more. Doing topographical layouts should not require fast z-axis motor travel. Be careful not to lower the z-axis acceleration if you are using constant velocity as this can make the topo "too smooth" where there may be features such as cliffs present. If you need to lower acceleration drastically, then use exact stop rather than constant velocity.

Another gotcha that may be causing this phenomenon is motor cable/wire chafing. We had this same issue crop up where two wires were shorting only at a specific position because the wires moved just enough to cause these wires to connect. This was caused by a zip tie. Zip ties have a very sharp edge that can cut the insulation of the wire. A hint of this problem is if this phenomenon is only present after working successfully with the machine for a greater period of time.

Use response:
I bought a new lead screw, bearings, antibacklash nut, and shim washers (WHICH NEED TO BE IN YOUR ONLINE CATALOG) and installed them. (Like another commentor on this site, my lead screw wouldn't go through the bearings. Simple solution was to chuck it into my drill press and 400 grit smooth it until a snug fit was had. Lowest RPM.)

Anyhow, I ran another Topo yesterday and got the same results. The wires are not frayed, the acceleration has been halved, the speed reduced to a crawl. When testing manually, twisting the Z axis up was very hard to do compared to lowering it.

I have thought about a counterbalance of some type, but that introduces lots of other problems.

Anything you can thing of will certainly help.

I can send pictures, etc.

Thanks!

Buildyourcnc response
What router/spindle do you have installed?

User response:
The one you sold me - 110 V, 1.5KW water cooled.

User response:
This problem of the z axis drift has been evident since I first started using the machine a couple of years ago. Lithophanes, stipples, topographic and other heavy z axis users have been particularly bad. It is to the point that I am turning away opportunities for lack of capability.

Buildyourcnc response:
I think all options may be exhausted. We will design a new mount that holds a large motor. Please give us a call so we can arrange to send that out to you.

We just determined that the existing mount need to be adjusted by about one millimeter for the main mounting hoes for the larger NEMA 34 motor to fit. The overall mount will look the same but the outside hole spacing will be adjusted by a very small amount to match the larger motor mounting holes. This new adjustment will be included with all new machines. We will send you the new mount (consisting of two structural pieces) and the longer screws that will be needed to extend to fit the motor frame thickness.

They didn't send the longer screws, nor the new required coupling, but I finally got it together and it works just fine. It returns to precise Z zero every time.

But the motor runs pretty hot because I think it should be run at a higher voltage than the current power supply provides.

Any new sales of Blacktoe 4.1 should include this modification.

Cheers.

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What would I need to purchase to increase the Z axis stepper motor up one size from the one that comes with the Blacktoe 4.1 with computer? I can't get Patrick to answer e-mails, so I'll try here.

• I have a blacktooth laser engraver. The Y Axis stepper motor needs to be replaced. Can you please provide me with the information I would need to replace this motor.

Yes, if you need a replacement part on your machine please call us at 281-815-7701.

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I have a blacktooth laser engraver. The Y Axis stepper motor needs to be replaced. Can you please provide me with the information I would need to replace this motor.

• I need the calculation to determine the stepper motor torque to find the load that it can withstand in horizontal position using a lead screw at 1/2" diameter with 13 TPI.

There are two main questions that we can answer with respect to motor torque and the mechanical advantage of lead screws, 1) What torque motor do you need to lift a particular weight, or 2) What maximum weight will my motor torque be able to lift.

This formula uses Newtons (N) as it's final unit. Use this with the included radius (R) to determine the torque. Newtons can easily be converted to lbs or ounces using online conversions.

Effort = Sf + (Load/(2 x pi x (R/p) x Se))

where:
p = pitch of the screw
Se = screw efficiency = Standard lead screw will be between 20% (.2) and 40% (.4)
Sf = static force. This is the force that is needed to start the movement. The number may be eliminated, but it is good to use a number in the 5 N to 20 N range.
Load = the expected load that the effort will need to carry (i.e., the router and the included axis assembly that the motor will need to lift)
R = radius of the lead screw

This formula is based on the "law of the machine"

The final effort amount with its unit of newtons and R will be the torque. For example, if the effort comes to 100 N (newtons) and the R is .5 inches, then you can assume that the effort is 50 N-in since it would take twice the effort to turn form the one inch mark from the center of the shaft.

Example:

Load = 90 N (20.2 lbs)
R = 1 inch since that is the length from the center of the shaft that the motor is rated
p = 1 inch / 13 = .08 inches

Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (2 x 3.14 x (1 / .08) x .2))
Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (6.28 x 12.5 x .2))
Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (15.7))
Effort = 5 N + (5.73 N)
Effort = 10.7 N = 2.4 lbs = 38.4 oz-in

I am putting the oz-in on the end because the formula considers the distance from the center of the shaft to be one inch.

Therefore, a 425 oz-in motor would be able to lift a 20.2 lb Router with its accompanying assembly. If the assembly and router is heavier, plug in the numbers and determine the effort required.

With a bit of algebra, the formula can be rewritten to find the load:

Load = (Effort - Sf) x (2 x pi x (R/p) x Se)

Another formula that does not consider friction at all:

Effort = (Load x p) / (2 x pi x R)

Lets see if we get similar results:

Effort = (20 lb x .08 inches) / (2 x 3.14 x 1)
Effort = 1.6 / 6.28 = .255 lbs = 4.08 oz-in

The results from both formulas appear to be very small because a 13 TPI screw will have enormous mechanical advantage.

It is evident that the first formula that does consider friction that we are loosely estimating is far more conservative than the second formula. Either way, even the most conservative formula shows that the 425 oz-in motor will handle very large weights. If you are using a lead screw with only two turns per inch, .5 inch pitch, you can determine the requirements with the first formula.

Example for a 10 TPI 5 start (2 turns per inch) lead screw:

Load = 90 N (20.2 lbs)
R = 1 inch since that is the length from the center of the shaft that the motor is rated
p = 1 inch / 2 = .5 inches

Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (2 x 3.14 x (1 / .5) x .2))
Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (6.28 x 2 x .2))
Effort = 5 N + (90 N / (2.512))
Effort = 5 N + (35.83 N)
Effort = 40.828 N = 9.18 lbs = 146.88 oz-in

Customer Response:
thank you so much

how do i calculate torque of stepper motor if lead screw coupled to motor shaft and load applied by lead screw on plate is 100 kg by vertically

Pls

1m 16mmdiameter ball screws calculations

What is the max load that 2 NEMA 17 stepper motors (spaced 2 feet apart, both will be pushing up on the same gantry) can lift while using a rod with the following specifications T8 OD 8mm Pitch 2mm Lead 4mm for each motor.

1

Click the link to add information to this solution:
I need the calculation to determine the stepper motor torque to find the load that it can withstand in horizontal position using a lead screw at 1/2" diameter with 13 TPI.

• I have a ShopBot CNC that was converted to Mach 3. The controller has gone out. I pourchased your Pokeys57 board, but I'm not sure I have everything I need. I think my motor drivers are OK, but am not sure how to wire them to what I purchased from you. Need Help. How can we make this work, or do I need a different board to distribute the movement signals to my drivers?

You should have no problem connecting the Pokeys57CNC controller to the drivers of your machine as long as the drivers have step (Pulse or PUL) and direction (DIR) terminals. You will need the cable pack that is sold separately so you can connect the headers/connectors of the pokeys57cnc controller to the drivers using ribbon cables.

I show this process in great detail on this page:
https://buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-electronic-component-breakout-Mach4-mach3-USB-ethernet-Board

Is you scroll down on the page, you will see a set of videos that show the process step-by-step.

• Does the spindle accept different collet sizes, or do I need to purchase different spindles that will accept different collets?

The 2.2kW spindle will accept up to 9/16" (a little over 1/2") end mill shanks down to very small diameters (any size that ER-20 will accept). The 1.5kW spindle has a reduced collet size and will only accept up to 5/16". The 1.5kW will accept ER-11 collets.

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Does the spindle accept different collet sizes, or do I need to purchase different spindles that will accept different collets?

• I JUST RECEIVED MY WHITE ANT AND STARTED TO DO SOME BASIC ASSEMBLY. NOTICE THAT THE 1/4 X 20 BOLTS WITH PHILLIPS HEAD NOT FIT IN NOTCHES CUT FOR THEM - INSTANCE, ON DREMEL MOUNT. AM SUPPOSED BUY DIFFERENT HEADS, GRIND ALL DOWN, OR ROUTE OUT BIGGER NOTCHES. 3" BARELY Z-AXIS MOTOR

BYCNC Response:
Please send a photo of the bolts and assembly so we can determine the problem. Thanks.

User Response:
The holes on the Dremel holder are 0.442" and the bolt heads are 0.483". Picture will be sent. In the picture note that the left bolt has been ground down.

BYCNC Response:
You were sent incorrect fasteners due to a vendor change. We will be shipping the correct parts to you immediately, and thank you for letting us know about this mistake.

• I have a KL-4030 stepper motor driver that I only have about an hour use on it but seems to be bad already. Has anyone out there had the same problem?

The KL-4030 is a Keling 3.0 amp stepper motor driver. These are generally pretty robust drivers. You mentioned in the question that it worked for one hour. This sounds like it could be a contact issue with the wiring in the terminals. I would recommend that you check all of the connections. The terminals that are used in these drivers have terminals that are easily used incorrectly.

Make sure to open the terminal all the way using a small screw driver. Then insert the exposed wire into the opening and re-tighten the terminal. Make sure of a good connection by tugging on the wires.

Also, check kthe digital wires that connect from the driver to the control board.

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I have a KL-4030 stepper motor driver that I only have about an hour use on it but seems to be bad already. Has anyone out there had the same problem?

• In the BlackTooth instruction the concluding sentence suggests connecting a wire from the right terminal of the pot to the VCC on the Laser Supply. There is no VCC on the power supply for the Laser that I can find. So, does this wire go to a different terminal on the power supply, or somewhere else where VCC exists, such as either stepper motor control?

VCC is the same as 5v. I will clarify on the instructions.

• I have your Mach3 usb interface board and am interested in the relay board to turn plasma torch on/off. I have a different relay board that doesn't work, it needs 0/5v from output pin to trigger and the usb board doesn't put out 5 volts. Does this relay board need 5v on output or will work fine with this usb controller?

The Mach3 USB interface board requires 24V relays externally. There are no relays on the mach3 usb board. If you use an external relay on the mach3 usb board, the relay connects to the V+ which is 24V and the output pin is the return.

I understand what you are saying. Does your relay board work with the Mach3 USB board? If not, what relay board do you suggest to work with this usb controller?

Our relay board works with our parallel breakout board. An off the shelf SSR (Solid State Relay) made for 24V should work fine.

• I HAVE ONE OF YOUR SMALLER STEPPER MOTORS RUNNING MY X AXIS BRIDGE CRANE AND IF IT IS MOVED TO FAST THE MOTOR SOUNDS LIKE SKIPPING STEPS WILL 651OZ REQUIRE A DIFFERENT POWER SUPPLY CONTROLER?

Yes, the 651 oz/in motor requires a driver that is compatible to the motors (the motor will draw 6 amps max and the driver paired with this motor will be able to allow for a 6 amp draw). I would also recommend a 36 volt power supply for better high velocity performance.

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I HAVE ONE OF YOUR SMALLER STEPPER MOTORS RUNNING MY X AXIS BRIDGE CRANE AND IF IT IS MOVED TO FAST THE MOTOR SOUNDS LIKE SKIPPING STEPS WILL 651OZ REQUIRE A DIFFERENT POWER SUPPLY CONTROLER?

• I would like to know if your breakout board and driver boards are compatible with MAC OS X working with Sketch Up pro using SketchUcam ?

SketchUcam will output gcode which standard CNC control software will typically interpret, execute and control CNC machines. So, there is no problem using SketchUcam. However, our CNC machine control software that use our CNC machine interface boards require Windows OS, of Linux. The Mach3 USB board will only run with Mach3 control software which runs under the Windows OS. The parallel breakout board can run under Windows or Linux OS and the computer must contain a parallel port.

Click the link to add information to this solution:
I would like to know if your breakout board and driver boards are compatible with MAC OS X working with Sketch Up pro using SketchUcam ?

• will the 651 oz. stepper motor you offer require a different power supply then for the original stepper motor I perched from you a few years back? I think it was a 24 V. unit????

Yes, the 651 oz/in motor requires a driver that is compatible to the motors (the motor will draw 6 amps max and the driver paired with this motor will be able to allow for a 6 amp draw). I would also recommend a 36 volt power supply for better high velocity performance.

Click the link to add information to this solution:
will the 651 oz. stepper motor you offer require a different power supply then for the original stepper motor I perched from you a few years back? I think it was a 24 V. unit????

• I ordered a redLeaf with Mach3 installed. Do you guys configure any of the setting in mach3 or will I need to do that all myself?

The redLeaf CNC computer systems will have either Mach3 or LinuxCNC installed as per the customer's request. If the Mach3 license is purchased, the license file will also be installed on the redLeaf CNC computer system.

The Mach3 or LinuxCNC settings will be configured during the assembly of the system. We contact the customer to determine the drive (mechanics) and inertial (weight of gantry and other parts of the gantry) specifications in order to correctly configure the steps per inch, velocity and acceleration.

Click the link to add information to this solution:
I ordered a redLeaf with Mach3 installed. Do you guys configure any of the setting in mach3 or will I need to do that all myself?

• Hello there, I am a beginner in trying to control a stepper with a pc, you can sell me a kit to control my motor from the pc. I already have a motor, driver, and power supply

All you need is a CNC controller like the following options:

https://www.buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-electronic-component-breakout-Mach3-USB-Board

This controller is easy to connect using standard wire screw terminals and works with the mach3 control software.

https://www.buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-electronic-component-breakout-Mach4-mach3-USB-ethernet-Board

This controller is a little bit more difficult to connect, but is a more feature-rich controller and will work with both mach3 and mach4 CNC control software titles.

Specifically, a CNC controller connects to the computer via a USB cable and connects to the motor drivers. These controllers also connect to the limit switches, spindle/router control, air/fluid/mist control, etc.

Click the link to add information to this solution:
Hello there, I am a beginner in trying to control a stepper with a pc, you can sell me a kit to control my motor from the pc. I already have a motor, driver, and power supply

• I have one of your smaller stepper motors running my X AXIS bridge crane and if it is moved to fast the stepper motor sounds like it is skipping steps will the 651oz stepper motor require a different power supply and controler?

Yes, the 651 oz/in motor requires a driver that is compatible to the motors (the motor will draw 6 amps max and the driver paired with this motor will be able to allow for a 6 amp draw). I would also recommend a 36 volt power supply for better high velocity performance.

• I have an engine NEMA 34 from Y axis on my green bull that do not response, I already check connections and everything seems to be OK, how can I check that the motor it's working properly or not?

If one or more motor is not responding, please follow the troubleshooting directions below:

For parallel Bob only! Make sure both the parallel and USB are connected.

Re-check wiring, and connections for continuity (no breaks in the wires) and check for correct wiring locations from driver to BoB.
Check dip switch settings on the driver.
Check components, by swapping the motors (ex. y-axis motor to z or x-axis driver and z or x-axis motor to y-axis driver) to check if motor functions on another driver.
Depending on software check step low active (mach 3) or invert pulse (planet-cnc) for the axis which is not responding.
Mach 3 - config/port & pins/motor outputs / Planet-CNC - file/settings/axes

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I have an engine NEMA 34 from Y axis on my green bull that do not response, I already check connections and everything seems to be OK, how can I check that the motor it's working properly or not?

• I have constructed the cnc router machine as shown in woodsmith magazine. I have purchased the 3 Nema stepper motors. The one larger motor has 4 wires, as do the other two. However, on the schematic, the Z, and Y axis motors indicate 8 wires each. Did I go wrong, or are there different Nema 23 motors?

The 8 wire motors need to be wired in bipolar parallel configuration. The wiring is as follows: Red and Blue to A+, Yellow and Black to A-, White and Brown to B+ and Orange and Green to B-. To find the wiring for the 4 wire motors, the wiring is Red to A+, Orange to A-, Blue to B+ and Green to B-.

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