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Question #: 755

Question: If I use a Porter Cable 3-3/4 router motor what size stepper motors do I need?

Current Solution

You can use the standard electronics combo: http://www.buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-3axis-425-elcombo. The size of the stepping motors are generally sized with the overall machine structural weight, inertia of parts, the type of mechanical parts used to move the axes, and actually, less by the router which is more connect to how the machine is controlled.

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Other Possible Solutions to this Question

  • I would like to build the 2’x 4’ blackToe2x4v40 CNC router. I have your book. I want to build the latest model blackToe2x4 v40. Are those the correct plans on your web book page ? Is there a bill of materials? If I use a Porter Cable 3-3/4 router motor what size stepper motors do I need?

    The blackToe 2'x4' cnc machine is sold as a kit only. We offer plans for the scratch (book) build machine that can be found here for purchase and also comes with a DVD showing the build process: http://www.buildyourcnc.com/cnckitintro.aspx and the plans for build in the book is on the CNC book page: http://www.buildyourcnc.com/Book.aspx.

    You can use the same size stepping motors referenced in the book: http://www.buildyourcnc.com/category/elcombo

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I would like to build the 2’x 4’ blackToe2x4v40 CNC router. I have your book. I want to build the latest model blackToe2x4 v40. Are those the correct plans on your web book page ? Is there a bill of materials? If I use a Porter Cable 3-3/4 router motor what size stepper motors do I need?

  • I got the plans and hardware from you guys and im almost ready for the stepper motor part of this build. what size motors are good to use for this build? the size of cnc will be 2x4 when finish or what size will not work? thanks

    We recommend our electronics combo for the scratch build kit, which you can find on our site here: https://buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-3axis-425-elcombo. This is our standard general purpose 3 axis electronics system, and includes (3) NEMA 24 425 oz-in stepping motors, (3) Drivers (3.0Amp 24-40 Volts, with 1-1/64 microstepping), (1) 36v 8.8a Power Supply, (1) Interface Board either USB or Parallel. (The USB version requires PlanetCNC software; the parallel interface board gives you a variety of options, Mach3 being one popular choice.)

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I got the plans and hardware from you guys and im almost ready for the stepper motor part of this build. what size motors are good to use for this build? the size of cnc will be 2x4 when finish or what size will not work? thanks

  • I own a blacktoe 2x4 cnc. I need to convert to 2.2kw spindle. I cuurently am using the porter cable router spindle.Thanks.

    We will have to replace the motor mounts that the router currently is mounted to. The process is easy we will need to communicate, through our email or over the phone.
    @:customerservice@gmail.com
    #:281-851-7701

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I own a blacktoe 2x4 cnc. I need to convert to 2.2kw spindle. I cuurently am using the porter cable router spindle.Thanks.

  • I own a blacktoe 2x4 cnc. I need to convert to 2.2kw spindle. I cuurently am using the porter cable router spindle.Thanks.

    If you would like to use a spindle rather than a router on your existing CNC, we will send you another set of components that will allow the spindle to be mounted properly which includes the z-axis rails, rail support, spindle mounts and the dust shoe components. You can find this item to purchase here: https://www.buildyourcnc.com/category/z-axis

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I own a blacktoe 2x4 cnc. I need to convert to 2.2kw spindle. I cuurently am using the porter cable router spindle.Thanks.

  • I have a BlackFoot with a 3.25hp Porter Cable router. What is a safe starting IPM to optimize feed rate? How fast do you guys run full depth passes through MDO or MDF?

    It is not recommended that standard routers do full depth passes. This is better done with a spindle. For best results with routers, we recommend a depth that equals the cutting diameter of the end mill. The IPM will relate to the chip load of the end mill (look up the formula online and add it here). The IPM will also depend on the end mill diameter, the larger the diameter, the faster the feedrate. A 1/2" end mill can cut about 300-500 ipm where a 1/4" end mill will be able to cut at 80-120 IPM, at a depth equaling the cutter diameter using a router. With a spindle, the same feedrates can be applied, but with more depth per pass. For instance, an MDF full depth cut at 3/4" can be cut at the 100 IPM using a 1/4" cutter.
    Here is a basic setup we have for our blackFoot (default setting):
    X-Axis
    SPI: 914.29
    Acc: 400.02
    Vel: 5
    Y-Axis
    SPI: 1422.22
    Acc: 400.02
    Vel: 5
    Z-Axis
    SPI: 1600
    Acc: 400.02
    Vel: 79.98

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I have a BlackFoot with a 3.25hp Porter Cable router. What is a safe starting IPM to optimize feed rate? How fast do you guys run full depth passes through MDO or MDF?

  • What do I need to do to my breakout board to turn the router motor on at the beginning of the program and off at the end?

    The breakout board has a relay installed and uses the terminals labeled S, O and P. The following link explains the operation of this relay and how to connect the terminals:
    https://www.buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-parallel-breakout-relay#prettyPhoto/8/

    You will run your power cord (use an extension cord rather than the actual power cord of the router) through the relay using the S, O and P. The P is a general connection and the S is normally closed (S and P is connected when the relay is not engaged) and O is normally open (O and p are not connected until the relay is engaged).

    There are three wires in the power cord: neutral (white), live (black) and earth ground (green). You will run your neutral wire (white wire) through this terminal. At some point in the power cord, remove the outer insulator and expose the three wires within. Cut your neutral wire and strip both ends of the cut. Then insert one end in P and the other end in O (normally open), so Mach3 or other control software you are using will engage the relay and the router will turn on.

    You will need to setup your control software to turn on the relay using Pin #16 as this is the digital signal pin that controls the relay.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    What do I need to do to my breakout board to turn the router motor on at the beginning of the program and off at the end?

  • Have checked stepper motor wires dozens of times and they are wired like diagram says. Stepper motors will not turn under power. I am using laser control option. What should I do?

    This sounds like a problem with the step (pulse) signal. The driver motors receive two signals from the computer via the board -- one is high or low and tells the motors which direction to turn, one is a square wave pulsed signal(quick that tells the motor to turn or a constant high signal that tells the motor to maintain its position. With an oscilliscope you can check for proper signal at the board. If you bought the board from us, please contact us to arrange a return authorization.

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    Have checked stepper motor wires dozens of times and they are wired like diagram says. Stepper motors will not turn under power. I am using laser control option. What should I do?

  • I am going to build a CNC 4x4 plasma table. The frame is made of 1 1/4" pipe and the gantry will be made of either 2"x 2" or 2"x 3" tubing. What size stepper motors do you suggest?

    We recommend our electronics combo for the scratch build kit, which you can find on our site here: https://buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-3axis-425-elcombo. This is our standard general purpose 3 axis electronics system, and includes (3) NEMA 24 425 oz-in stepping motors, (3) Drivers (3.0Amp 24-40 Volts, with 1-1/64 microstepping), (1) 36v 8.8a Power Supply, (1) Interface Board either USB or Parallel. (The USB version requires PlanetCNC software; the parallel interface board gives you a variety of options, Mach3 being one popular choice.)

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I am going to build a CNC 4x4 plasma table. The frame is made of 1 1/4" pipe and the gantry will be made of either 2"x 2" or 2"x 3" tubing. What size stepper motors do you suggest?

  • DO HAVE TO REMOVE THE PORTER CABLE 892 ROUTER EVERY TIME CHANGE BIT?

    If you remove the dust shoe, you should be able to reach the collet to remove the end mill.

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    DO HAVE TO REMOVE THE PORTER CABLE 892 ROUTER EVERY TIME CHANGE BIT?

  • I'm going to use 2 stepper motors for my X-axis. Can I use the same connections on the B/O board to do this knowing I will need 2 separate driver boards.

    Yes, absolutely. If you need two motors for a single axis, you will want to use the same terminals for pulse and direction from the breakout board.

    More specifically, you will wire the step/pulse pin to both drivers, and the direction pin to both drivers. If the motors need to turn in different directions, simply swap the A and B coil connections on one of the motors.

    Additional Information:
    i have checked the cnc machine for any flex and there is none but i still cannot cut circles they end up square.have checked calibration and it is correct but if i run at 4000 mm feed all comes out correct but if i change feed to say 2000 mm it makes the part small, like in tiny.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I'm going to use 2 stepper motors for my X-axis. Can I use the same connections on the B/O board to do this knowing I will need 2 separate driver boards.

  • I have theNema 24, 425 Oz stepper motors kit what are my Ports and Pins?

    The ports and pins are designated by the breakout board that you have, Now here are the schematics for both(https://www.buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-parallel-breakout-relay#prettyPhoto/2/ and https://www.buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-electronic-component-USB-Controller-Breakout#prettyPhoto/2/) Which for the Parallel the pins will be 1,14,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. For 1,14 you will need to use them together for a additional axis. Setup will be (ex.mach3) step in (2) / direction pin (3). continued for other pins, 4,5 6,7 etc.
    Now for the USB it has the label on the board right next to the terminal blocks, x-axis/etc.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I have theNema 24, 425 Oz stepper motors kit what are my Ports and Pins?

  • What would I need to purchase to increase the Z axis stepper motor up one size from the one that comes with the Blacktoe 4.1 with computer? I can't get Patrick to answer e-mails, so I'll try here.

    Thanks for the question. The blackToe z-axis motor is a NEMA 24 425 oz-in stepping motor and the next step up is a NEMA 34 651 oz-in motor located here: https://buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-nema34-651ozin


    To make it work on the blackToe CNC machine, you would need to fabricate a new mount and the top bearing mount, or request us to fabricate it for you by calling the office.

    Curious, why the need to increase the size? If the motor is having a difficult time, there may be a deeper mechanical issue at play. One issue you may have is that the bearings are needing shim washers to separate the inner and outer races. If the two races are rubbing against the coupling or collar, the bearing may be difficult to turn under the weight of the assembly. If there is too much friction between the anti-backlash nut and the lead screw, you can add some 2-in-1 oil, or other similar lubricant.

    Thank you for using our Customer Service Live. Patrick often answers these questions. We prefer this system over email as these questions will benefit others.

    If you have additional questions or need more explanation relating to this question, please add to this answer.

    User response:
    I have added the shim washer between the bearing and coupling and have always used a light oil on the lead screw. I halved the acceleration on the Z-axis. Then I re-ran a topo that took two hours on the finish pass. No change in my results - the Z-axis slowly dropped until when the program finished and everything went back to the start point, the Z axis was lower by 0.378 inches than when it started at 0.800 above the surface.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated. Maybe I need more shim washers in the assembly between all the bearing surfaces?

    buildyourcnc response:
    Before you add a larger motor, check these first:

    1. take the motor off by remove only the motor screws and removing the motor as well as the coupling half that is secured to the motor shaft.

    2. Turn the lead screw by hand. This will still be connected to the z-axis assembly by the anti-backlash nut, so you will feel the resistance in the upward motion of the z-axis. Does it feel relatively easy to turn, or very difficult?

    3. If the resistance is relatively normal with respect to gravity and normal friction between the anti-backlash nut and the screw, then you may want to half the velocity as well on the z-axis motor tuning, and even reduce the acceleration a bit more. Doing topographical layouts should not require fast z-axis motor travel. Be careful not to lower the z-axis acceleration if you are using constant velocity as this can make the topo "too smooth" where there may be features such as cliffs present. If you need to lower acceleration drastically, then use exact stop rather than constant velocity.

    Another gotcha that may be causing this phenomenon is motor cable/wire chafing. We had this same issue crop up where two wires were shorting only at a specific position because the wires moved just enough to cause these wires to connect. This was caused by a zip tie. Zip ties have a very sharp edge that can cut the insulation of the wire. A hint of this problem is if this phenomenon is only present after working successfully with the machine for a greater period of time.

    Use response:
    I bought a new lead screw, bearings, antibacklash nut, and shim washers (WHICH NEED TO BE IN YOUR ONLINE CATALOG) and installed them. (Like another commentor on this site, my lead screw wouldn't go through the bearings. Simple solution was to chuck it into my drill press and 400 grit smooth it until a snug fit was had. Lowest RPM.)

    Anyhow, I ran another Topo yesterday and got the same results. The wires are not frayed, the acceleration has been halved, the speed reduced to a crawl. When testing manually, twisting the Z axis up was very hard to do compared to lowering it.

    I have thought about a counterbalance of some type, but that introduces lots of other problems.

    Anything you can thing of will certainly help.

    I can send pictures, etc.

    Thanks!

    Buildyourcnc response
    What router/spindle do you have installed?

    User response:
    The one you sold me - 110 V, 1.5KW water cooled.

    User response:
    This problem of the z axis drift has been evident since I first started using the machine a couple of years ago. Lithophanes, stipples, topographic and other heavy z axis users have been particularly bad. It is to the point that I am turning away opportunities for lack of capability.

    Buildyourcnc response:
    I think all options may be exhausted. We will design a new mount that holds a large motor. Please give us a call so we can arrange to send that out to you.

    We just determined that the existing mount need to be adjusted by about one millimeter for the main mounting hoes for the larger NEMA 34 motor to fit. The overall mount will look the same but the outside hole spacing will be adjusted by a very small amount to match the larger motor mounting holes. This new adjustment will be included with all new machines. We will send you the new mount (consisting of two structural pieces) and the longer screws that will be needed to extend to fit the motor frame thickness.

    Additional Information:


    Additional Information:
    They didn't send the longer screws, nor the new required coupling, but I finally got it together and it works just fine. It returns to precise Z zero every time.

    But the motor runs pretty hot because I think it should be run at a higher voltage than the current power supply provides.

    Any new sales of Blacktoe 4.1 should include this modification.

    Cheers.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    What would I need to purchase to increase the Z axis stepper motor up one size from the one that comes with the Blacktoe 4.1 with computer? I can't get Patrick to answer e-mails, so I'll try here.

  • I am asking what to set my steps per using your kit stepper motors and a 1/2"x13 lead screw with Mach3

    Here is the formula for steps/inch (steps per inch)

    Steps = how many steps for a full ration of the motor = standard motor steps x number of microsteps for each step
    Standard motor steps for our stepping motors is 200 steps per revolution.
    Microsteps are selected on the driver and are shown as full, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32 etc... Use the denominator for the number of microsteps per step.

    Inches = how far the travel is for one full rotation of the motor. For the 1/2" - 13 TPI (threads per inch), the travel length will be 1"/13 or .076923". So, for one revolution of the motor, the travel distance will be .076923 inches.

    So, the steps = 200 * microsteps, let's make this 1/4 just for the formula.
    The inches will be .076923. Plug those into the formula:
    Steps / inch = (200 * 4) / .076923 This can also be written as:
    200 * 4 / (1 / 13) = 10,400



    Additional Information:

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I am asking what to set my steps per using your kit stepper motors and a 1/2"x13 lead screw with Mach3

  • What side of the x and y axis do you mount the stepper motor to? If it does not matter what side, do I have to change something in mach3?

    It is usually best to mount the motor in a way so it is spinning clockwise to avoid confusion.

    Additional Information:
    ok, but lets say the motors turn clockwise. if you mount it to ether side of the y axis it will pull to that side so what are the correct positions of the stepper motors. is it the left side or the right side of the y axis and also is it the front or back of the x axis?

    Additional Information:
    cw250 with mach3 controller

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    What side of the x and y axis do you mount the stepper motor to? If it does not matter what side, do I have to change something in mach3?

  • I'm trying to build my CNC router 3m*1.3m, but i'm not sure what is the type of stepper motor i should pay, all my CNC body is Al. I need to bay 4 Stepper motors, 4 drivers, spindle, inverter, and i don't know what is the type of controller ?

    The size of the stepper motor is measured in holding torque, generally oz/in. You will determine the torque loads of your axes when selecting steppers. Once you know which stepper you need, the drivers and controller board are simple to pair with them.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I'm trying to build my CNC router 3m*1.3m, but i'm not sure what is the type of stepper motor i should pay, all my CNC body is Al. I need to bay 4 Stepper motors, 4 drivers, spindle, inverter, and i don't know what is the type of controller ?

  • I have a blacktoe router table with a porter cable 892 currently in it. Which other router(s) fit the same mount?

    The motor mounts for the PC 890 series routers will fit the Bosch 1617 routers as well, however you will need to adjust the top mount to accept the slight edge of the Bosch 1617 router at the top motor mount.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I have a blacktoe router table with a porter cable 892 currently in it. Which other router(s) fit the same mount?

  • HAVE PORTER CABLE 7518 ROUTER ON MY CNC AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF YOUR ER20 COLLET NUT, FOR THE CABLE, WILL FIT ROUTER.

    Yes, our porter cable collets and nuts will fit the porter cable 7518.

    Additional Information:

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    HAVE PORTER CABLE 7518 ROUTER ON MY CNC AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF YOUR ER20 COLLET NUT, FOR THE CABLE, WILL FIT ROUTER.

  • I have not used my CNC router (Mach3, USB interface board) for several months. When I tried to use it, all 3 stepper motors moved extremely slowly. Where should I start troubleshooting?

    If your motors turn very slowly using your Mach3 USB board, then either the pulse from the board is being output at a slow rate or the motor drivers are set to a higher than expected microstepping:

    The Mach3 USB board outputs the pulse rather than the computer, but Mach3 controls this pulse frequency within the motor tuning section. First, determine if the travel distance is correct with the computer and the physical travel of the machine.

    If the travel is different, then your stepper motor driver's microstepping is incorrect, or the steps per inch/mm in the motor tuning within Mach3 is incorrect.

    If the travel is correct, then simply change the velocity and acceleration parameters to your desired level. If Mach3 will not achieve the velocity you desire, then decrease your stepper motor driver's microstepping setting, readjust the step per inch/mm in mach3 and readjust the acceleration and velocity to your desired levels.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I have not used my CNC router (Mach3, USB interface board) for several months. When I tried to use it, all 3 stepper motors moved extremely slowly. Where should I start troubleshooting?

  • HOW MUCH MOTOR CABLE DO I NEED FOR A BLACKFOOT

    The blackfoot requires a total of 50 feet of cable.

    The X axis needs 15 feet
    The Y axis needs 17 feet
    and the Z-axis needs 18 feet

    These are 20 gauge 4 conductor cable.

    Additional Information:

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    HOW MUCH MOTOR CABLE DO I NEED FOR A BLACKFOOT

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